complexity governance

yes Sir! but in what spirit? http://www.allacademic.com//meta/p_mla_apa_research_citation/2/5/4/3/0/pages254300/p254300-3.php Are we going to go on doing this as chaos?

I work in this spirit: http://www.rianeeisler.com/ What are we trying? We're at the edge of 2 options. What will we do? Who goes for what? Who goes for life and who goes for desperation?

Where is ilya Prigogine set?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbHMc2bO98M

Hello Natteja!

I would challenge your opinion in 2 points:

who knows the difference between politics and complexity governance? As I stated, I think politicians should be making complexity governance, but they don't because they mostly ignore how to do it. We simply have no complexity culture at all yet. Education may help.

Second: complexity governance is supposed to include the divergences you talk of. Complexity rules breakers have to be triggered, so that, whatever they do, it follows the path designed for them. ;-) this means that those regulating complexity have to be wicked and mean as the delinquents are, but honest with them selves... not easy!Ha!

Then, who says that we will regulate all of the complexity? We just intend to regulate minimum quantities, just enough to not to allow trauma to create interferences with brain functions and complexity production. We attempt to reach a much lower goal than governance of all. We try to reach out only to minimum needs coverage and leave the rest to free market forces. Maybe we're wrong, and we should be more ambitious, but... we have not seen a need for extended complexity governance, beyond minimum agreed critical masses.

Uff! such a long way to go...

:-)

ha! I can see some Buddha smiling...

This reminds me of "Chaos Theory"! Aspects of chaos show up everywhere around the world, from the currents of the ocean and the flow of blood through fractal blood vessels to the branches of trees and the effects of turbulence. Chaos has inescapably become part of modern science. As chaos changed from a little-known theory to a full science of its own, it has received widespread publicity. Chaos theory has changed the direction of science: in the eyes of the general public, physics is no longer simply the study of subatomic particles in a billion-dollar particle accelerator, but the study of chaotic systems and how they work.

complexity governance, I believe, is the subject that needs understanding from the mathematical modelling, scientific assertions, and deeper understanding from the socio-scientific communities!

hey Kaliyamoorthy!

"But, in Nature, these elements can not be studied.Only the past experience & deduction from it help us govern the mass. This put us in tight situation."

Agreed, agreed, yes, agreed.

For this reason we have written the analysis of the system of violence and it's internal logic. The faster we manage to combine all knowledge portions, the better. We're at a very critical limit.

http://www.aurora-hope.net/?r=150

Here we have our main ideas presented in only 220 pages. Maybe it is of some use to you and to what you do?

http://www.aurora-hope.net

on this web site we store all the necessary information we create to make good complexity governance including the substitution of the human system of violence by complexity governance. 

We are more than happy to share and we would very much appreciate if any person wishes to share ideas and writings here too.

Hey Kaliyamoorthy!

"But, the complexity we received is attributed to Natures Fury."

I particularly like this one...

:-)

Let's call it fury, why not. 

However I like to see all in complexity terms. 

If we humans keep building complexity cycles, we're much more likely not to offer our own fragility to nature's fury. Nuclear power stations are a "rigid concept" due to the 50000 years of nuclear radiation they impose. Any renewable energy, solar energy is cyclic and does not put us at such a risk. It is cyclic and it has no dangerous radiation. If Japan breaks apart and all 50 nuclear power stations drown, the planet is doomed. If a meteor hits the planet on any surface and only nuclear power stations get hit, we're doomed.

The nuclear energy was born in a human system of violence in WWII. It is a violent product, a consequence of a complexity downfall due to trauma impact. Hiroshima is just the peak of an iceberg if we stretch our span of observation over 150 years instead of the last 60. A war is a consequence of the critical trespassing of tolerable domestic violence. When interfamilial violence grows over 35%, any country goes to war. The US go 2 x per year in average to war and their domestic violence average rate is 45%. In Europe, domestic violence rates average 20%. Europe is presently trying to reduce wars everywhere. But we will not manage easily, because we are too few. We do not reach the sufficient critical mass of persons fast enough yet. For this reason, we are exposing human kind to such risks. It is an automatism of which no person is guilty. Domestic violence rates at the beginning of the 20th century in Europe where so high, that scientists like Freud, our first psychoanalyst could not even believe his own statistics. No wonder Europe had that WWI and WWII. It just helped cutting complexity down to the necessary and sufficient amount to restart 100% of society. Europe was just immensely lucky. Europe has no merits at all.

I wish we were able to share all this knowledge fast enough. 

Among many variables that affects/ alters the Human Behaviors, the NEED & SATISFACTION plays a crucial role. Abstract psychologist agreed that, depending upon the degree of fulfillment of needs, one's behavior is modified / altered. When the needs are not fulfilled, obviously, we see a behavioral change outwardly. This creates complexity in governance but, it can be improved by providing them the NEEDS. This is what I am driving at.

By proper understanding the needs of a group / individual, and yielding them their NEEDS, always resulted in positive behaviors. So this principle can be used to manage Human complexity.Psychologist proved all this in Rat- Cage test.

But, in Nature, these elements can not be studied.Only the past experience & deduction from it help us govern the mass. This put us in tight situation.

Hey Ginestet,

My application knowledge tells that, for any Industry for that matter is to be set-up, the Quantitative Risk Analysis report is to be accepted by the Concerned Atomic administration. It analysis various aspects, keeping in mind of various Emergencies including the man-made. Accordingly, depending on the severity of Risk available for the project, the ALARP (As Low As Reasonably Practical)measures are taken. The residual risk needs to be within the acceptable limit or in negligible rate. Otherwise, the Statuatory (Atomic Commission of Japan ,here)bodies turned down for improvement. The QRA dictates the LOP's to be kept in mind while designing it. So far as the plant is concerned, we can not dispute anything authoritatively unless we are the one to say that.

But, the complexity we received is attributed to Natures Fury.

violence of system? Nature is always more intelligent. It is our view to see the system and System violence. Nature view may be different. it think in much broad way as we think. The system violate according to us because system definition is according to us. but this is the definition exact as the nature define the system, who can say? so the violation will be change.

Thanks:

"These Complexity can be shared mutually to assuage by one another among countries in the World. It can be enriched through outsourcing. Mutually decreasing the complexity to certain degrees by exchanging element on mutual partnership. I hope I am not discussing these here.

However, I appreciate your measures towards Complexity Governance".

I agree. We need a global institution regulation complexity flows, and we need a pretty professional institution that calls these complexities by their name and does not use nice surrogates in moral terminology. For this reason we set up a structure, the grid of complexity observatories. We shall see if we are fast enough.

Hey Mr. Mathew,

Complexity of Governance can be reduced by adopting different Political system, Social policies, Introduction of new technical methods, Skilfully sharing resources, Safeguarding the security by mutual military resources, Providing expertise to build, run & operate various systems, Aiding through Monetary funds, Cultural exchanges to amalgamate new immigrants etc etc,

So, I feel the provision of rational /irrational policy comes under the purview of Complexity Governance.

Hey,

Starvation increased in the recent past, does indicate that, the frequency & severity of Nature Havoc , in terms of devastation has increased manifold. You can see it in, Mine collapse in Mexico, Flooding in China by Yellow River, also in Australia, Tsunami in Japan, Indonesia, Gale/Storm in California, Florida, Earthquake in Gujarat etc etc. We are unable to recoup from one attack to another. The time frame available to replenish the required resources become very scanty or nil you can say.

This widening gap between the devastation & Replenishment grows starvation. Because, production, transportation & distribution of the produce becomes ineffective.

Hello, and yes, I agree, this is all human maid, and I would like to point at just one issue, which is that it is proven, that starvation started crumbling down in the early 1970 until 1996, this was the year when Western food producing companies went on the stock market, like Nestlé, Monsantos, etc. It happens to be, that one political decision could be to withdraw the allowance for agricultural and food producing companies to be on the stock market. in the early 70's starvation was about 950 million persons. In 1996 it was 730 million persons, since 1996 to our days it has grown back to 1.055.000.000 persons. We have a regulation possibility which extends to the economical structure on which food production is based.

Hey Mr. Ginestet,

"we have developed a system which enables us to understand our role as complexity multipliers and inventors according to nature and it's requirements,"

I find the scope drift away from the Human complexity but to complexity of Governance. Human complexity what we discuss is a sub domain of Complexity of Governance as a Whole.

These Complexity can be shared mutually to assuage by one another among countries in the World. It can be enriched through outsourcing. Mutually decreasing the complexity to certain degrees by exchanging element on mutual partnership. I hope I am not discussing these here.

However, I appreciate your measures towards Complexity Governance.

Hey Mr.Ginestet,

"Food production on the planet is more than sufficient. starvation is a symptom of an active system of violence."

Starvation etc is due to Mal-functioning of the System(PROCUREMENT, TRANSPORTATION & DISTRIBUTION). Organs of the system fails, say may be, Road blocks by Snow bound area, Sudden gale faced by people, Abrupt flooding damaging the stores etc. Violence can be reduced by yielding to their request(satisfying the Expected conditions). These mal-functioning , in society can be reduced provided the factors attributed to it are yielded as per the requirement. It means Governance can be best established by properly understanding the requirements & offering to it( Human complexity reduction measures). But, in Nature these kind of measure can not be taken and also it happens all of a sudden without any early warnings.

Hey Mr. Ginestet,

"No expert will agree that the happenings are due to Human Error." German experts and many other, also Japanese have admitted to this error. We not only admit to the error but we also deliver a scale on which the error can be measured. We are ready to index complexity for any human action and to define which complexity is sustainable and which not. "

In Japan incidents, if I look at it, with my readings, it says that,(1) . Failure of 3 LOP's( Layer of Protections) provided to avert major loss due to any abnormal operating conditions, is considered as the IMMEDIATE CAUSE for the scenario (2).The effect of natural calamities such as Tsunami & Earthquake etc as the UNDERLYING CAUSE. I do not find any human play here & so it is not attributed to Human error. I do not understand what you quoted in your sentences. My insistence was based on this concept. we can carry out a Root Cause analysis using various techniques available .But, that is out of scope of discussion.

"To govern the people, we pool-up the resources, man-power, materials sufficiently & accordingly ... & Impacts such as Global warming, Climate change etc." I totally agree with all of this. No harm in adding that with rising challenge we also need to grow. For this one of the greatest issues is to spare complexity as we spare energy, cutting down energy consumption.beyond this very basic need, we can also share complexity governance agreeing on minimal standards on the planet. We need to be faster than the system of violence. The system of violence sets world wide standards by the impact of trauma on human capacity of complexity crisis solution. A brain affected and damaged by 1 type of trauma produces 50% less contingent solutions than a healthy brain that is not affected by trauma. We need to focus on trauma reduction. Starvation is one of these trauma. Food production on the planet is more than sufficient. starvation is a symptom of an active system of violence. We need to operate on the system of violence to stop this reality destruction. For this to happen we need to have a simple set of rules concerning complexity governance that is a common agreed standard. This is what we produce right now.

Hey Mr. Ginestet,

My contention is that Human behavior is predictable under certain conditions. This is established in psychological tests.So, when those required(expected) conditions are given(met), their complexity can be reduced to enhance your governance better. Whereas, the Natures behavior is not (say not) predictable under any conditions. You are aware that scientist are continuously researching the Natures' behavior under various conditions but, they are unable to reach a concrete or an agreeable solution.

As a result of which prediction and subsequently, preparation to meet such occurrence becomes foolhardy way. This enables governance complex.

As far as Japan is concerned, the lacunae that you highlighted may be a technical slip-sod. But, had there not been any series of Natural calamity , these slip-sod is not going to make any difference. It would continue dormant. But, what made the governance complex , there again is the NATURE, Not the technical slip-sod or the Human Failure. No expert will agree that the happenings are due to Human Error.

Hey Mr. Gineset,

Can I add something here?. To govern the people, we pool-up the resources, man-power, materials sufficiently & accordingly, we plan to manage the mass requirement in the best possible manner.

But, suppose say, there is no sufficient rain fall, obviously, we are unable to predict its accuracy. Then, it causes lesser or no crop production, water shortage, drought, hydro-power problem etc. Howsoever, intelligent, the governors or the planners are, this creates complexity in governence. All such natural occurance happens abruptly & makes governance buzzled. Eventhough, we managed the people & the requirement as per the forecast, Natures' complexity fails us TO DELIVER THE GOODS AS PLANNED.Similar things goes for Earthquake, Storm/Gale, Tsunami,Valcano eruption etc.etc

Hence , we say that the complexity of Nature is predominant in governance. Lest, our resources can be effectively planned to get optimum in governance.

Of late, this is the reason, the WORLD, has shown interest in Environmental Effects& Impacts such as Global warming, Climate change etc.

true, yes, thanks Sulagna for telling that complexity governance is the great challenge we face. This is my point and I agree, of course. However, unless this complexity governance is biased by the understanding of the system of violence and what it means and does, we will never manage. When I write about the system theory of violence, then I mean system theory in academic terms. The system theory of violence is useful to be understood as a complementary element of any complexity governance, be it theory or practice.

I do not agree in leaving this to the hands of nature, because nature regulates human complexity to the interest of nature, which pretty harsh and hard. "Natural violence", be it carried out by natural phenomena or by "human intermediation" is pretty cruel and brutal. Obviously nature shall rule us and our complexity unless we are not sufficiently skilled to do it ourselves.

Regarding why I am Europe based: well, I am Europe based, because this is where I was born, where I live and I suppose I need to work here to support evolution as it can be supported. I certainly could do no better in any other place of the planet. Right?

Governance is complex because attitude is complex and a person's basic attitude remains the same. A human being is born with unique attitudenal traits and cannot change throughout his life. Two brothers born to the same parents and having same education and upbringing have different attitudes and that is reflected in the way they Govern. One may be democratic and the other may be autocratic. This complexity is hard to explain except if you believe in reincarnation and past Karma. 

Thanks ,Sulagna for referral, I agree with your remark for insight,but i produce a quote on life.

I feel that the destruction caused by Complexity of Nature is much more than the Humans'. Japan, Indonesia, Gujarat, Gulf Oil etc. are standing models. Whatsoever, Human skill , that is very complex in Nature due to various factors including the personal moods, are trying their bests to establish a good & efficient system to counter this, FINALLY IT PROVES HELPLESS OR UNSUCCESSFUL. The Complexities of Humans are resolvable whereas the Complexities of Nature is only Redressal to best possible way.

Under a given conditions, Humans complexities are almost, predictable, to as true to its extent as possible. Whereas Nature complexities can not be predictable to very closer or accurate degree. We have have seen so many software model available in the World for Fire & Natural calamities. Have we ever succeeded in prediction?

Governance of Human complexities can be established by providing the expected conditions whereas, the Nature it is too difficult. We can only govern through Warning Alarms.

i support on your part SULAGNA MAM, ...my research on the topic and analyses highlight the complexity of new governance arrangements ,but the more or less dualistic perspective limits the possibility for exploring more fully this complexity.

Sulagna I tend to agree on your point of view of complex human nature and it is by birth.

When the concept of complexity comes? It comes when human think that this thing is not easy to understand. But it is only the way we are seeing. Like maths can be easy for one but complex for other. Biology can be easy for one but complex for other. Now if someone get the teacher who know the best method to teach the subject where is the complexity? i think nowhere. We can only understand a complex system by easy method. as the system will be more complex the method will be more easy. they are reciprocal to each other. when the system will go complex method will go easier and deeper. But the problem is we don't know the method so we think that things are complex.