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Topic : Today's Testing Challenges
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Created by : Prashant Gajjar, QA Engineer, Cybage Software Pvt Ltd.  | 08 18 2008 05:40:04 +0000
Industry : IT ServicesFunctional Area : Project Management(Technology)
Keywords : Not Developers Say Testers
Activity:  577 views;  last activity : 07 06 2010 20:18:09 +0000

Developers testing their own code - what will be the testing output? All happy endings! Yes, the person who develops the code generally sees only happy paths of the product and don’t want to go in much details.

The main concern of developer testing is - misunderstanding of requirements. If requirements are misunderstood by developer then no matter at what depth developer test the application, he will never find the error. The first place where the bug gets introduced will remain till end, as developer will see it as functionality.

Optimistic developers - Yes, I wrote the code and I am confident it’s working properly. No need to test this path, no need to test that path, as I know it’s working properly. And right here developers skip the bugs.

Developer vs Tester: Developer always wants to see his code working properly. So he will test it to check if it’s working correctly. But you know why tester will test the application? To make it fail in any way, and tester surely will test how application is not working correctly. This is the main difference in developer testing and tester testing.

Should developers test their own work?

I personally don’t mind developers testing their own code. After all it’s there baby ;-) They know their code very well. They know what are the traps in their codes. Where it can fail, where to concentrate more, which is important path of the application. Developer can do unit testing very well and can effectively identify boundary cases.

This is all applicable to a developer who is a good tester! But most of the developers consider testing as painful job, even they know the system well, due to their negligence they tend to skip many testing  paths, as it’s a very painful experience for them. If developers find any errors in their code in unit testing then it’s comparatively easier to fix, as the code is fresh to them, rather than getting the bug from testers after two-three days. But this only possible if the developer is interested in doing that much testing.

It’s testers responsibility to make sure each and every path is tested or not. Testers should ideally give importance to all small possible details to verify application is not breaking anywhere.

Developers, please don’t review your own code. Generally you will overlook the issues in your code. So give it to others for review.

Everyone is having specialization in particular subject. Developers generally think how to develop the application on the other hand testers think how the end user is going to use the application.

 

Conclusion

So in short there is no problem if developers are doing the basic unit testing and basic verification testing. Developers can test few exceptional conditions they know are critical and should not be missed. But there are some great testers out there. Through the build to test team. Don’t waste your time as well. For success of any project there should be independent testing team validating your applications. After all it’s our (testers) responsibility to make the ‘baby’ smarter!!

What you say?

 
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Top Argument
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Developers are never good tester if you ask them to test their own code, as they cannot test it from a nutral point of view. It's just like saying "I am a careless coder, I do so and so mistakes...", how many people can boldly say this? And after coding if you are asking him to do the testing also (other than unit testing), then this becomes a burden, so he starts doing a superficial testing as a result some of the bugs are missed which can be easily detected if tested carefully.

But I have seen some of the good testers in my life who actually started their career as Developers. This proves Developers can only be a good tester provided he takes the Testing job seriously and stick to that.


By Diptanjan Mukherjee, Team Leader -(Technical), Navayuga Infotech  04 02 2009 18:17:59 +0000
 
Top Argument
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I don't really support this flat and radical statment.. Atleast come up with some points to support the statement.
By Dipankar Ghosal, Senior Consultant, Capgemini  08 20 2008 01:51:40 +0000
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Developers can be the best testers provided they test the coding of others. It is not wise to expect the coder do the test of their own programming.
By Arshad , Director, Masai  | 04 14 2010 09:32:36 +0000
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The main concern of developer testing is - misunderstanding of requirements. If requirements are misunderstood by developer then no matter at what depth developer test the application, he will never find the error. The first place where the bug gets introduced will remain till end, as developer will see it as functionality.

Optimistic developers - Yes, I wrote the code and I am confident it’s working properly. No need to test this path, no need to test that path, as I know it’s working properly. And right here developers skip the bugs.

Most of the developers consider testing as painful job, even they know the system well, due to their negligence they tend to skip many testing  paths, as it’s a very painful experience for them. If developers find any errors in their code in unit testing then it’s comparatively easier to fix, as the code is fresh to them, rather than getting the bug from testers after two-three days. But this only possible if the developer is interested in doing that much testing.

They know their code very well. They know what are the traps in their codes. Where it can fail, where to concentrate more, which is important path of the application. Developer can do unit testing very well and can effectively identify boundary cases.


By vikash kumar, Software Test Engg, Root Info Solutions  | 04 14 2010 05:35:38 +0000
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Developer always wants to see his code working properly. So he will test it to check if it’s working correctly. But you know why tester will test the application? To make it fail in any way, and tester surely will test how application is not working correctly. This is the main difference in developer testing and tester testing.


By vikash kumar, Software Test Engg, Root Info Solutions  | 04 14 2010 05:29:57 +0000
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one person can not perform two tasks efficiently at a time, so developers are not good testers,but they can do testing. and its human tendency to hide ther fault so how dev will show u defects, even though they r not ready to accept da defects raised by testers.


By naveen , Freelancer, Freelancer  | 04 09 2010 06:09:56 +0000
2
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Statement is true...but not completely....

Developers are never good testers when it comes to test their own code. but even they can give a good round of code testing for the codes written by other developers. we have to agree on one point that nobody can test his own work. Even the testers who write manual test cases can not do justice to their own test cases while reviewing. Whenever you get a review done of your code or test cases there is a strong possibility of getting an issue.

 


By Vishal Garg, Sr. Software Engineer, RV Solutions Pvt. Ltd.  | 06 17 2009 06:49:57 +0000
1
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Developers are not good Tester's but Tester's could be a Developer.


By N. NAGESHWARAN, ADMINISTRATIVE OFFICER, M/s. KEC INTERNATIONAL LTD. (an RPG group)  | 05 13 2009 13:22:54 +0000
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But not always.If a developer is more technically sound than the tester then he/she is aware of the loopholes made during coding.The same will be missed during testing phase.If the tester is more technical skills then it will be captured during testing.
By vijaykarthikk , QA/QC Manager, consim  | 09 23 2008 11:57:32 +0000
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I think, if developer do proper Unit testing, the regular production will be good.
By sundararaman , Design Engineer, asian electronics  | 09 23 2008 10:59:53 +0000
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Yes --- Developer Testing  - Unit Testing will reduce the post testing burden and would reduce time consumptions
By Vijayanand Kuppurao, Win TLT Technologies  | 09 05 2008 04:25:20 +0000
1
1

I think, if developer do proper Unit testing, so 50% of bug chances should reduce from the project at least. 


By Prashant Gajjar, QA Engineer, Cybage Software Pvt Ltd.  | 08 20 2008 02:54:57 +0000
1
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developers are not good testers because they have set their mind in a way that they have developed their code and so that it is difficult for him to break its own code.
By Jigar Gajjar, Software Developer Silver Touch Technologies  | 08 19 2008 03:22:18 +0000
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Yes, Developers are not good testers.



By Prashant Gajjar, QA Engineer, Cybage Software Pvt Ltd.  | 08 18 2008 05:40:04 +0000
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I would say Developers are good testers.  Since developer wants to meet the complex requirements first and then address the simpler ones. In addressing the requirements every developer tests requirement with all possible input set making the code to work.
Till integration every developer code works as expected in the development environment. But in integration, there would be different input set to test the functionality.
So, I like to say if developers spend enough time in integration test then tester job would be easy.
I believe integration testing is more important. If there are issues in this environment, then the source should not be moved to testing envi.

After integration testing at least 60 - 65% of the bugs would be reduced.

This is one of the reasons why people moved to Agile methodology in S/w development which forces continuous integration.

 


By Pradeep Pantula, Sr. Software Engineer  | 04 14 2010 12:02:43 +0000
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Yes, a developer can also become a good tester. I believe its all about attitude of the person. If the person has right attitude of testing the product coupled with qualities like ‘test to break’, ‘strong desire for quality of the product’, ‘attention to detail’, ‘analytical mind’, ‘product and domain knowledge’ he can become a good tester too. Yes, it is absolutely necessary while testing the product he should wear Tester’s hat and vice versa. I know it is difficult but won’t say it is impossible.


By Krishna , Software Testing, Ness Technology  | 04 01 2010 10:07:40 +0000
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Statement is wrongly said....Its a common human phenomena..Whatever work you do, either write code in s/w, cook food or whatever work of your liking, you put your best efforts based on your experience, knowledge and blah blah...and you think this is the best i have done...If somebody says to find flaws in the o/p of your work, you can't.....

Its the other person who can think probably  in a way you haven't thought and may find flaws. The same applies in s/w too....

 


By Ajit Lal, Sr. Software Associate, Avaya India Pvt. Ltd.  | 01 23 2010 15:19:21 +0000
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In developer point of view testing is the process to see software works correctly.
And in tester point of view testing is the process to prove that software does not work correctly. It is not that developers are bad at testing. It is just that they look at things from their perspective & this is what I have seen in my experience. As developer is the person who builds the application. He will look at it only from his perspective. It is the small details he might miss while development. Now it is the duty of tester to have an eye for all the small details and break the application by giving in all types of data and creating all possible scenarios. It is not that who is good, it is just that the end product should be hassle free & that way positions are assigned.....


By Radhakrishna Marar, Business Analyst, Oracle  | 04 02 2009 13:43:28 +0000
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Dipankar i agree with you because every position has been created for specialised people so a specialised person can justify a particular position. so i would say that developers are good at developing the code but for testing there are people who are expert in testing the coding for which they should only be employed.


By Jithesh Ramesh, Actuary Manager, Tata Aig Insurance Solutions  | 04 01 2009 10:00:59 +0000
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The arguements put so far in favour of the topic does not validate the topic.. Instead it only says that "we will see wonders if we put more effort to  testing .. suggesting that the QA guys are not competent in their domain......"

Please come up with more prudent facts and data.. to support your case


By Dipankar Ghosal, Senior Consultant, Capgemini  | 08 21 2008 05:53:22 +0000
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yes
By Premal Dhebar, Software Developer Cybage  | 08 21 2008 04:01:08 +0000
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The scope of a developer in Testing is to check if his Junits,Nunits have passed and that his code satisfies the Sanity check.

if there occurs any Functional tests which fails, then it surely comes in the universe of the leads and all requirement gathering teams.

I don't know about others.. but yes.. in our team ..it is mandatory for a developer to check that the Unit tests have passed (by Unit we mean code Units checked thru Junits etc).

The functional disparities may be due to insufficient requirements and other facets...

You cannot term the Developer as a "Not good tester" just because you found a bug.


By Dipankar Ghosal, Senior Consultant, Capgemini  | 08 20 2008 03:30:51 +0000
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Well, as a developer one is bound to not see beyond the horizon and test his code.. This is just similar to not noticing a ripple in water when you are gazing at the pond for some time...

And btw .. hats off to us.. for providing our tester friends.. to get something to work upon.

If we did all the things... our QA guys would be left doing nothing.. and i do not want that...


By Dipankar Ghosal, Senior Consultant, Capgemini  | 08 20 2008 01:21:34 +0000
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