yes there is no doubt
By
Dr.Narendra Bahadur Singh, Sr REPORTER, TRIGUT HINDI DANIK NEWS PAPER
| 04 05 2011 16:55:02 +0000
Scinece as we understand today still can not explain many many things and there are are exceptions always to many scientific rules. Look at anomalies of water as aliquid abundantly available in nature. Astrology is based on organised study of nature and is definitely a science, which is based on knowledge gained from mother nature.
By
Somasundaran Chakkambath, Finance/Budgeting Manager, Gulf Engineering Co. KSCC - Kuwait
| 04 05 2011 06:58:55 +0000
definately its a science, and science gives us the knowledge about planets and their impacts on each and every thing available everywhere in the world. I also dont believe in predictions by BABA's and all, But if someone scientifically explain me the calculation based on the positon of planets and prove it then i think nobody in the world can deny it!
By
Rohit Thakur, Electrical Engineer-Industrial, Quality Engineering and Software Technologies
| 04 05 2011 05:50:43 +0000
Dear Manish In astrology you can only calculate planetary influence and hence predict that you might be having a good time or a bad time. If anyone states that you are going to become the PM because your time is good, that is fooling you. But the fact remains that your time is good because of the planetary positions. Then why is it said that on your birthday, the planets line up in the same way as it was on your birth . Do you call that mysticism, coincidence or what ? It cannot be either of that becuase mysticism cannot be proved, coincidence cannot happen every year of your birth. Everything has got maths behind it and a bit of science. I would say it is a scientific calculation. People who predict things based on astrology are the ones giving astrology a bad name. In astrology only your bad time can be predicted but what is going to happen in that time cannot be ! Like in all fields, astrology too has been exploited of nefarious gains. I think we all should read CV Raman's book on astrology which proves it from a scientific perspective.
By
Jaygopal Raghavan, Marketing Manager, Landmark Group
| 02 27 2011 15:47:17 +0000
Astrology is the old science of Indian culture.It covers wide range of mathematics,trigonometry,physics,gravitational force of cosmic waves and solar planets,astronomy,numerical space technology,geographical effect on human life and physical property,nature,body shape and life span.More over till today not in list of science is natureology.We have this astrology was found before 5000 year ago.This is very strange and most complicated science so it is not easy for all so that is why this knowledge is not accepted by some unknowns.
By
LAXMAN KESHWALA, Freelancer, Telecom/ISP
| 02 26 2011 22:39:28 +0000
My argument is for astrology only. i posted this in response to the person who was against astrology as i opposed his view.
By
Jaygopal Raghavan, Marketing Manager, Landmark Group
| 02 26 2011 17:26:12 +0000
Definition of Science indicates 'organised set of knowledge' and Astrology is such. Like other sciences it has many hypothesis. We are still discovering and inventing many things in the universe. Since universe is not static, many of our earlier assumptions may go wrong, still we can not say our earlier assumptions were unscientific! Astrological predications may go wrong some times, likewise any other predictions and forecasts as well, depending on change in future circumstances. Astrology is a science like any other sciences.
By
Somasundaran Chakkambath, Finance/Budgeting Manager, Gulf Engineering Co. KSCC - Kuwait
| 02 22 2011 11:42:51 +0000
Dear Mr Narayn Thanks for the patient detailing. You have yourself answered through detailing that simply because we may not not learnt a subject it does not become unscientific especially if based on logic and reason. The principles of science that we are aware are given ready made by a certain system. Indian sciences be it in astrology or ayurveda are much more ancient and since we were unable to keep the development theories as safe as in case of modern science we often face this dilemma. Quacks are known to enter every field including modern sciences and if they were able to enter these ancient knowledge should not surprise us. At best it is their re re-research that is required and may succeed bring back our faith.
By
Ravindra Sharma, Managing Consultant, CHEF-India
| 02 16 2011 09:56:01 +0000
ofcourse, It is a science of planing, science of invention and so on............
By
Nem Singh, Consultant, Consultancy Firm
| 02 16 2011 08:12:55 +0000
please stop saying unnecessary things about astrology if you don't know anything about it. giving opinion is ok but it should be relevant without any knowledge no one can say anything
By
sushanttomar , Relationship manager at indiabulls
| 02 15 2011 17:29:34 +0000
Most certainly ! In fact it is a complex science based on a whole lot of complex calculations and a delight to math officiandos !
By
Jaygopal Raghavan, Marketing Manager, Landmark Group
| 02 15 2011 16:18:35 +0000
Excellent Kiran Nair ji. I like :-)
By
G A Narayan, VP - Marketing, KE Housing P. Ltd.
| 02 15 2011 11:23:54 +0000
These discoveries of ancient india were achieved by spirituality , by conquering the mind which opens the door for secrets of nature , you don't have any right to say anything against it unless u follow same method , this is science
By
Amit Pandey, Embedded Engineer, Electronics
| 02 15 2011 08:15:02 +0000
G.A Narayan ji, Thanks, surely, there are so many such examples, one just need to explore, same can be said of some excellent discoveries and inventions on mathematics, astrology, medical, surgery and other sciences too.
By
akshaya bhatia, Experienced IT plus Management Professional
| 02 15 2011 08:02:10 +0000
Excellent Bhatia-ji, The ancients have also made some discoveries - 1. they knew and named the smallest partical as "Anu" (Sanskrit for Atom) 2. calculated the shortest possible time limit as the "time taken by light to travel from the periphery to the center of an atom. 3. Calculated the time span of earth to be around 12 billion years. A few years ago scientist were stating the age of earth to be around 4 billion years but now some scientists have come close to 12 billion years mark by figuring out the age to be around 8 billion years.
By
G A Narayan, VP - Marketing, KE Housing P. Ltd.
| 02 15 2011 07:48:35 +0000
Dr Ray you are right.
By
Manorama , Freelancer, NGO
| 02 15 2011 06:46:51 +0000
K. Narayan ji, is not this a very strange logic that even if more than 90 percent of predictions (forecast) meteorology go awry, yet it is science because the data is well documented whereas for astrology even if the predictions have a very high degree of accuracy it is unscientific….What has documentation to do with science…?.!!!.. If you document instances from history, will it become science? Logically, success rate and results should matter. Cosmos and the positions and movement of planetary planets surely impact the living and non living, as well, it has been tested over the time and can be proved also. As a general example, if tides in an ocean can happen owing to moon, as scientifically also confirmed, then how is that human body composing of over 90 percent water will not be affected… Instead of presenting arguments, not in alignment with logic, one must first study astrology (as many noted scientists have also done), particularly some good ancient books on Indian (Vedic) astrology, say Brighu Samhita, Siddhanta Shiromani etc, etc, in order to understand and comprehend it properly. One must shun parochial attitude and have scientific temper and an open view on marvelous subjects with scientific basis that have stood the test of time. Bid sure, that one will be astounded to know the scientific and very nearly accurate approach that is being followed while postulating principles and rules of Astrology. Let me quote and give some instances from Siddhanta Shiromani, an ancient text on Jyotish (Vedic Astrology):- Thousands of years before Sir Isaac Newton postulated theory of and laws of Gravitation by observing an apple falling from a tree:- Sloka in Siddhanta Shiromani says:- Akrishya shaktishcha mahi tayaayat swasthe gurum swami mukham swaktayaa Akrishyate yatyat teev bhati same samantat ripat twiyamrave The excerpt can be translated thus: - Earth is endowed with the power of gravitational force which helps in attracting any object moving in an upward direction. Also refer, very near to very late observations of Astronomy science, on speed of light and distance of sun from earth, Sloka in Siddhanta Shiromani says:- Kotighna naravnand shatk narav bhubhrid bhubhujangendubhih Jyotih shastra vido vadanti nabhasah kaksha mimam yojanaih This excerpt can be translated thus: - The rays of the Sun reach a maximum distance of 187120692000000000 Yojanas( a classical measuring unit) which is known as diameter of the circumference of Brahmanda paridhi (universe) or Akash Kaksha. There are many, many absolutely correct calculations on movements of planetary bodies and their influences on the dot on the planet earth and inhabitants, verified impacts as well, that prove beyond doubt that Astrology is a science, par excellence.
By
akshaya bhatia, Experienced IT plus Management Professional
| 02 15 2011 06:17:45 +0000
@ Mr. K. Narayan Quoting a proverb is not mythology. And what do you mean “is there anyone alive today who can do this ?” I dint understand this sentence. The chemical reactions are true and well researched. So is the position of the planets based on the charts. In fact, these were calculated and an almanac (precise) was prepared much before the computer age. I don’t know much about Chemistry or the equations. But I am sure that there may be several areas where research is still being carried out and the prediction of the result might still not be clear. Coming to your way of thinking based on your other post – “the principle should be capable of rigorous proof and it should not have any exceptions , unless the exceptions can also be explained by the principle”. Ans 1 : Take meteorology for instance. Ok. All the data is gathered using various equipments and the data may be accurate. Still the prediction goes wrong most (90%) of the times. Strange that people like you would still accept it as a science and not as an art or just hocus-pocus. Ans 2 : The allopathic doctor states empathically “He has got cancer (or any other ailment). I give him about 3 months to live”. Why, because the doctor has been taught and seen that for patients with this type of data (lab reports) the result would be as he mentions – this can be considered as the “Principle”. However, there are several cases where the person have been completely cured by a miracle or by another stream of medicine (Alternative medicine) or by methods like spiritual healing, etc. This is the “exception to the principle”. Would medical science be able to explain these accurately by using the same principle? Or should we, going by your statements, declare allopathic medicine to be a non-science? I can give more examples but I suppose that for now this would do.
By
G A Narayan, VP - Marketing, KE Housing P. Ltd.
| 02 14 2011 17:25:55 +0000
The other side of the divide states that A. there is no review by peer group, no papers presented on the subject to researchers, there are no methodology device for the study of astrology, et al (and everything that according to them must happen for a subject to be regarded as science). Point A – All that you all say that must be present for it to be called a science has been devised by the westerners only 2 or 3 or 4 centuries ago. All these definition dint exist before that. In fact, all science, arts, etc., were treated as knowledge. Please remember that the principles of calculating the charts and its effects on an individual dint land up on the lap of someone suddenly on a fine sunny Sunday morning. It was the result of sustained effort and study and exchange of information by various gurukuls (peer groups) and pains taking research and everything else that was possible using available resources during that period. There were no large universities or learning centres. And most of all, there was no paper available for them to write long documents. Everything had to be written in a leaf or had to be condensed to small verses and the students learnt these by rote. Whatever was existent today is a result of those who put the effort for a few millennium a long time ago. After this country went into foreign rulers a few 100 years ago, there was systematic destruction of the gurukul system and the study dint continue. In fact, none of the Indian subjects were taken up by the modern system of education. There was a prolonged effort to annihilate any knowledge acquired by locals, especially by the Jesuits priests all around the conquered world. So what are you all saying can be likened to this – Catch an high flying eagle; break its wing; then see if it can fly; it cant fly; so you state that it is not a bird. More than that, come up with a definition of what a bird should be; then term the eagle (with broken wing) as a Non-Bird. That is what the attitude of all those on the other side of the divide.
By
G A Narayan, VP - Marketing, KE Housing P. Ltd.
| 02 14 2011 16:55:01 +0000
Shahnawaz ji, Please, try to understand logically and scientifically with no biases and an open mind, what i have been emphasizing and what i implied by “"Though that is not the point", even if these note scientists would not have been studying Astrology or not regarding it as domain of science or had some reservations, (though i reiterate that there are ample instances and proofs to prove otherwise), then also Astrology would surely remain as science owing to the logic already posted arguments by me and many others. Since you insisted, therefore i had to post this otherwise there was no requirement for this. It is like saying that if some one is not convinced and adamant that earth is spherical, then one has to post a photograph of earth taken from the space, nothing more than that….
By
akshaya bhatia, Experienced IT plus Management Professional
| 02 14 2011 10:38:13 +0000
Dear Mr Narayan, Having read your arguments am tempted to pose a few simple questions to all those who say "Astrology is not science". Many students attempt a mathematical equation yet not all succeed with right answer, would you go on to say mathematics is unscientific? Ayurveda, does not have the scientific backing in terms of clinical trials does it make it nonscientific. The very definition of science that we have learnt is from a system that is not older than the knowledge of ancient systems. And suffiecient re-research has not been done to uncover and learn them through presently known systems of scrutiny. This does not give us any right to call whatever is unknown as unscientific.There are many mysteries that science is still struggling to find answers to therefore it is at best premature statement to call it guesswork.
By
Ravindra Sharma, Managing Consultant, CHEF-India
| 02 14 2011 08:58:21 +0000
@ k.Narayan That's where "shraddha " comes in picture , if u don't have that why i will tell u , u better find ur test object by urself ,
By
Amit Pandey, Embedded Engineer, Electronics
| 02 14 2011 08:55:35 +0000
@k.narayan finding a good astrologer is like finding ur spiritual guru u have to do it urself , why i will tell u even if i know ? anyway search , surely u will get across somebody , but not by typing on internet against astrology
By
Amit Pandey, Embedded Engineer, Electronics
| 02 14 2011 08:43:40 +0000
there is no glory of science , they r just discovering and using laws of nature which r already there , has science been able to create consiousness ? or even understand that ? what if u understand material world ? u have not made this u rely on mercy of nature ,by just finding some relations between different phase of matter u think u r creator ? god is biggest scientist and inventor and science has many limitations , it can not go beyond instruments , but Hindu traditions go beyond them because they use mind which is finest instrument , these laws of astrology are formulated through deep conquest of nature these r not just some plan to loot money , as the indians who are hollow and have learned about their religion and history through marxist books think ,
By
Amit Pandey, Embedded Engineer, Electronics
| 02 14 2011 08:39:25 +0000
K.Narayan ji, Exactly, same with Astrology as with other domain of sciences. Just as you mentioned, like in other domains of sciences, the inaccuracies and failures are researched by applying variations in parameters of the constrained environ of experiment or hypothesis, qualified astrologers also do the same to arrive where they went wrong in their analysis and prediction. Just like, sometimes, when a space rocket (artificial satellite) fail to take off, or does not find right elevation or orbit, space scientist try to find out where they went wrong in the calculation and execution, the exactly same with the qualified astrolgers, who can explain where was the oversight in their observation and how they missed the mark... A good astrologer, well versed with the rules and principle of astrology, will surely take you to the right path by scientific analysis of horoscope and study of planetary transits...
By
akshaya bhatia, Experienced IT plus Management Professional
| 02 14 2011 08:37:28 +0000
@K.Narayan Mr. narayan u r again repeating same line , yes u can tell ur child that he is going to fail if he continues same action he is doing in present , and can pass if he studies, this is common sense , but not astrology , astrology gives u more information than common sense , it has ability to analyze ur past, ever heard of Bhrigu Samhita etc ? and then astrologer can tell u some corrective action for the sins of past , that can relieve u from the present miseries ,and believe or not it is truth , That is the freedom of karma , what i am in current movment is because of my deeds , astrology can help me understand what corrective action will be required , as i said there are many levels of existence not only "observable through instrument " , with help of astrology u can get solutions to many problems which r not found elsewhere in elopathy or other methods , astrology is closely related to concept of "karma " it does not treats human like matter which u r doing
By
Amit Pandey, Embedded Engineer, Electronics
| 02 14 2011 08:15:46 +0000
@ K.Narayan :- "that one can overturn the predictions of astrology ........... experimenter is focused and clear-minded ?" that is the difference between you and hydrogen oxygen molecules , you are a conscious human being (???) , you can change ur destiny through karma , all astrology does it that it predicts future based upon the present (which is also result of karma ) , but you can always change your karma, that is the ability provided to u because u r not Dog or cat but human who makes his destiny , astrology only gives indication , but human karma and Gods will can change everything
By
Amit Pandey, Embedded Engineer, Electronics
| 02 14 2011 07:10:07 +0000
"science" has many un answered questions , those things which science can not answer does not means don't exist , it just shows inability of science to go beyond the "universe observable through instruments " , astrology is also a study of nature and it does predicts correctly and helps human being,, there is no need for support from the materialistic science to prove that astrology is truth ,
By
Amit Pandey, Embedded Engineer, Electronics
| 02 14 2011 07:01:31 +0000
Narayan ji, Absolutely in agreement, that i also said in the beginning, "that is not the point", i was only replying to the line of argument presented by Shahnawaj ji. Incidentally, you are also endorsing my line of argument by stating that "even Einstein's theory of relativity has been questioned by other scientists. The theory that light consists of particles has been questioned by those who are in favour of wave theory.", exactly same holds for science of Astrology. No, Science does not believe in a principle only if it is proved beyond doubt.Nothing is permanent, so are the principles of science. Science is an open medium of exploration and not a closed parochial one, where perceptions are tested, theories are proposed, emulated and applied, Exactly same with Astrology, that is logic based on placement of cosmos entities and their impacts on livings and non livings. No living being can be 100 percent accurate all the time, because there are several permutations and combinations while working under a constrained environment, and similar holds true for other domains of sciences, findings,and experimentation,,,,egs. medical diagnosis, weather reports, and your argument on Albert Einstein, and several other scientists who are never beyond doubt and often also not agree 100 percent amongst themselves....
By
akshaya bhatia, Experienced IT plus Management Professional
| 02 14 2011 06:54:12 +0000
Shahnawaz ji, Though that is not the point, let me ask you, what is more reliable logically, the link suggested by you that is based on a non corroborative report printed on 1994 with inking of skepticism and lot of contradictions, or the excepts from a book, which is much nearer to Newton’s era. Ironically, the link you referred, categorically says that some books on astrology were found in Newton’s library, and that itself proves that Newton studied Astrology. It is very illogical to say that since, number of books was lesser than other books in the library, therefore Astrology is a lesser science. In order to prove your point logically, you must show any where in Newton’s writing where he had deprecated Astrology. Same holds for Albert Einstein. Also, refer, some other noted scientists who studied astrology:- http://scienceray.com/astronomy/five-great-scientists-who-studied-astrology/
By
akshaya bhatia, Experienced IT plus Management Professional
| 02 14 2011 06:17:04 +0000
Shahnawaz ji, Though that is not the point, let me ask you, what is more reliable logically, the link suggested by you that is based on a non corroborative report printed on 1994 with inking of skepticism and lot of contradictions, or the excepts from a book, which is much nearer to Newton’s era. Ironically, the link you referred, categorically says that some books on astrology were found in Newton’s library, and that itself proves that Newton studied Astrology. It is very illogical to say that since, number of books was lesser than other books in the library, therefore Astrology is a lesser science. In order to prove your point logically, you must show any where in Newton’s writing where he had deprecated Astrology. Same holds for Albert Einstein. Also, refer, some other noted scientists who studied astrology:- http://scienceray.com/astronomy/five-great-scientists-who-studied-astrology/
By
akshaya bhatia, Experienced IT plus Management Professional
| 02 14 2011 06:15:13 +0000
Shahnawaz ji, Though that is not the point, let me ask you, what is more reliable logically, the link suggested by you that is based on a non corroborative report printed on 1994 with inking of skepticism and lot of contradictions, or the excepts from a book, which is much nearer to Newton’s era. Ironically, the link you referred, categorically says that some books on astrology were found in Newton’s library, and that itself proves that Newton studied Astrology. It is very illogical to say that since, number of books was lesser than other books in the library, therefore Astrology is a lesser science. In order to prove your point logically, you must show any where in Newton’s writing where he had deprecated Astrology. Same holds for Albert Einstein. Also, refer, some other noted scientists who studied astrology:- http://scienceray.com/astronomy/five-great-scientists-who-studied-astrology/
By
akshaya bhatia, Experienced IT plus Management Professional
| 02 14 2011 06:14:48 +0000
The same is the case with Astrology too (Note: I am only talking about Indian Astrological methods). It is a science. If the practitioner is not knowledgeable in this Science or if he is a fraud, he would cast a wrong horoscope and predict many things that may never happen. Also, any good astrologer would also state that whatever he predicts is only based on the chart and are outcome of the predictions are dependent on some conditions (as given below) : 1. The experience and knowledge of the astrologer and the method of casting of the horoscope. In my experience the KP Method is more accurate as compared to Triganith. The Vakiya method is the least accurate. 2. The Date, Time and Place mentioned must be accurate or at least very close to being correct. 2. The outcome can be altered with a strong mind (Deepest single minded focused thought - this is the meaning and beginning of Karma). In Tamil there is a proverb – “Mathi-yal Vithiya matalam” meaning that you can change your “Vithi” meaning Fate or Destiny by using your “Mathi” or wisdom arising from deep thinking. The charts can only indicate - for example - The signs in a person's horoscope chart are like the road signs. If the road sign says "Bad Roads" then you have to go carefully / slow or change route. A Bad Road for each "Type" vehicle is indicate different things – for a sports car it would be very very bad, for a normal car it would be bad, for a SUV is slightly bad and for an Army All Terrain Vehicle it is nothing at all. Likewise, for each "Type" of individual (there are numerous types) the result of outcome might be different. However one can also change his destiny / fate by single minded focused thought. So, for all that matters, astrology is a science. It is the astrologer who may be at fault. Just like some doctors who are very efficient or good and others are not so good and some are outright frauds or quacks. If a person goes to a quack and gets wrongly diagnosed (like casting a wrong horoscope) and wrongly treated (like wrong predictions). For that reason, it may not be right to blame the entire medical science as hocus-pocus. The same applies to astrology too.
By
G A Narayan, VP - Marketing, KE Housing P. Ltd.
| 02 13 2011 15:55:37 +0000
Dear Mr. Shahnawas, If someone says "it falls under a science" it is meant that "it is a science". Nutrition is a science and it is a part of the Science of Health or Well Being or Medicine. Any medical practitioner would confirm this. Any nutritionist or physician would also confirm that one has to be cautious in what a person eats especially when one unwell or wants to reduce weight. If you go to a quack or a fraud, he would give you the wrong diet prescription which may not solve your problem. Now, you can’t blame the whole "Science of Health and Nutrition" for that and say that it is not a Science. BTW: If a nutritionist states that a "Phulka" is 50 calories, he/she means an average sized "Phulka" of around 6" dia, which is the size that is normally made at home. So it is only an average and if they ask you to take only 300 - 350 calories they mean only to take about 4 "Phulkas" and a katori of Dal. ..... Continued in the next post
By
G A Narayan, VP - Marketing, KE Housing P. Ltd.
| 02 13 2011 15:50:54 +0000
100% true...its completly calculation(mathematically).
By
Rohit Thakur, Electrical Engineer-Industrial, Quality Engineering and Software Technologies
| 02 13 2011 15:40:25 +0000
if you agree to say that astrology is a science then you need to agree that god is also science..
By
anuragini raj sinha, HR TALENT ACQUISITION, Leading IT Gaint
| 02 13 2011 14:03:01 +0000
Dr Ray, i agree with you that Astrology is science, and your view that it could have served better purpose if the opinions, data result patterns and various schools of thoughts could have been better organized. However, for that matter, even in medical sciences, there are different approaches to treatment and medicines, such as allopathy, homeopathy, Unani system, Ayurvedic, etc, etc, and so are variety of mode of diagnosis and treatment, no one objects to that,, ome, people demand guarantee for an astrology but no medical doctor guaranties for his treatment... Weather forecasts, that use professional scientific minds, super computers and sophisticated equipments more often go awry and off the mark,.....
By
akshaya bhatia, Experienced IT plus Management Professional
| 02 13 2011 12:54:36 +0000
ASTROLOGY IS DEFINATELY A SCIENCE WHICH COMMON MAN DOSE NOT UNDERSTAND AS IT HAVE BEEN DISCOVERED LONG AGO AND WHOS EVIDANCE IS FROM VEDAS
By
ASIF IQBAL AZMI asifiqbalazmi@gmail.com, OWNER, D'CO CREATION
| 02 12 2011 19:25:21 +0000
YES ASTROLOGY IS DEFINITELY A SCIENCE WHY I AM SAYING THIS BECAUSE I AM A PALMIST EXAMPLE : IN PALMISTRY WE USUALLY SEE THE NAILS OF A PERSON TO KNOW HIS/HER HEALTH IF THE PERSON HAS LONG NAILS AND THERE ARE NO MOON MARKS ON HIS/HER NAILS AND THE NAILS ARE PLAIN AT INITIAL POINT SO IT MEANS THE PERSON IS MUST BE SUFFERING FROM COUGH AND HEAD AND BREATHING RELATED PROBLEMS AND IF THE NAILS OF A PERSON IS SMALL SO IT MEANS HE /SHE IS SUFFERING FROM THE HEART RELATED PROBLEMS AND DOCTORS ALSO SEE THE NAILS TO ANALYZE THE HUMANS
By
sushanttomar , Relationship manager at indiabulls
| 02 12 2011 13:12:49 +0000
Dear Mr. Shanawas, Counting and eating roties does fall under a science - dietary science or the science of well being :-). So do continue following the science of eating and stay healthy.
By
G A Narayan, VP - Marketing, KE Housing P. Ltd.
| 02 12 2011 11:22:43 +0000
It also can be said.... science to be still in its primitive age as still our very existence is based upon an assumption of the 'big bang'..... & hence creation and expansion of our universe;....it also says; we, ourselves & everything in this universe is made of very few & some finite number of basic elements....and each thing bind others with some specific gravitation force to itself... Whereas in astrology; without computers & telescopes, some fine knowledgeable & pious souls were able to understand this whole pattern & developed a systematized study of our Moon, different planets,,Nakshatras,,Dashas... etc,,,and their effects on Earth & human beings due to the very similarity of basic Pacha-Tatva,,,,and here Brihma is the big bang! Now Sunday column or the like is not astrology...all we have to do is to be a God's man & find such a pious soul as only they can read out the real message behind....to guide us for better!!!
By
ujjval jain, Retail, Retail
| 02 12 2011 11:18:15 +0000
This is an old issue. With my life's experience i'm confirmed the predictive discipline is based on a system which can be supported with scintific reasons. It's not fake and not applied to deceive a person. Some of the observations have expressed that astrologers predict and earn money and they don't give gurantee. My question is if we go to a doctor does he/she give gurantee? But we have faith in it. Because it has been established. Unfortunately astrology has probably not ben analysed deeply to establish its scintific reasoning. Those who are denying it have also not gone deeper with adequate analysis.Merely saying "no" is invalid. This trade is infested with many so called astrologers who do not have a deep knowledge about the subject. There are educated astrologers who can give well defined reasons to make its validity.
By
Amiya Chaudhuri, Company Partner , ADUNIQUE 76
| 02 12 2011 10:06:15 +0000
Science itself is leading in darkness only , they can not explain consiousness , or anything about existence , science is just a study of nature , it is not science that has made "gravitation" "magnetism " , these are properties of nature , science only has discovered , similarly astrology is a science which studies the relation of human with universe , it is also a study of nature ,
By
Amit Pandey, Embedded Engineer, Electronics
| 02 12 2011 07:58:25 +0000
Indian astrologers knew many discoveries attributed to galileo or newton , read Samhitas of Aryabhatta or Varahmihir , astrology is a science , it is spiritual science , and it does benefits humans , those founders of astrology discovered the relation between human life and cosmos , all that can not be seen through science instruments is not non-existent , when government can allow "Madarasa" to spread hate , violence and religious bigotry what is problem with astrology
By
Amit Pandey, Embedded Engineer, Electronics
| 02 12 2011 07:52:26 +0000
Varahmihira and Aryabhatta were astrologers ,Varahamihira described the Earth as spherical and as being suspended in space (Panchasiddhanta 13.1 ) much earlier than any galileo , they did not have telescopes , how they found these things? Varahmihira says "by grace of God " , indian astrology is based on spirituality and laws of life , we r in race to become modern and ignoring our great heritage , Hindu Astrology is based on the principle that universe is interconnected , these laws which astrologers used are not made to earn money , astrology helps in many problems
By
Amit Pandey, Embedded Engineer, Electronics
| 02 11 2011 18:03:35 +0000
Ms.Meena in my opinion, astrology is a science but the prediction requires a lot of experience. We can not blame the astrology but the people who predict in a wrong way make to think negative about astrology. Practically speaking it is very difficult to judge the planet positions and its results. It needs god's grace to foretell and everybody can not and sometimes the people are cheated by fraudulent people for the sake of money which creates bad impression about astrology. In fact, two out of five predictions will be correct since the human being can not understand the secret of planets impacting the people.In case every predictions by the astrologer become correct, people will forget the god and the astrologer will become the god. All are bound by the acts of our Karma in the earlier birth and according to karma people are taking birth to experience the consequences that they have done. It would be advisable to refer the astrology/astrologer in case any one likes to buy a house or construct a house, during marriage of children, or in case of heavy investment on business or a vital decision to take in life. Under the circumstances the astrology will be a good guidance based on one's horoscope. For other routine matters one has to do the duty what it should be. Have confidence on God and go ahead. Work is worship.
By
NATTERAJA R. ARIKRISHNAN, GM-Projects, Bentec Electricals & Electronics Pvt. Ltd
| 02 11 2011 17:56:19 +0000
Astrology is a science , it does not needs to prove itself by methods of modern science , its benefit is known by using it , there can be many frauds but there are many good astrologers also , every old tradition is not simply superstitions , science itself does not knows many secrets of existence and is wondering in darkness only , astrology is closely related to spirituality and it has power to provide solutions of many problems universe is complex , all these old methods are there for a purpose
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Amit Pandey, Embedded Engineer, Electronics
| 02 11 2011 17:21:49 +0000
yes astrology is science we lack good scientist.
By
sandesh saboo, Research Associate/Analyst, saboo associates
| 02 11 2011 09:11:50 +0000
yes astrology is a science... & I do agree with it.
By
Revathy Venkitesh, Traffic Assistant, Global Aviation & Services Group
| 02 11 2011 02:07:59 +0000
|
ASTROLOGY IS NOT A SCIENCE, NO ONE CAN DENY THAT SINCE A MAN'S SUCCESS OR FAILURES BOTH ARE TIED MUTUALLY WITH PLANETS.
INDIA HAS HAD A HISTORY OF ASTROLOGY, PEOPLE OF INDIA BELIEVE IN PLANETS AND STARS SINCE THE UNIVERSE CAME INTO EXISTENCE. PRIMITIVE MAN DIDN'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT SCIENCE, BUT VERY MUCH AWARE OF SUN AND MOON AND ONLY ON THAT BASIS THEY USED TO PREDICT OF RAINS, FLOODS, EARTHQUAKES ETC AT THAT TIME THERE WAS NO SEISMOGRAPH, THIS CLEARLY EVINCES THE EXISTENCE OF ASTROLOGY, THE FIRM BELIEF TOWARDS IT.
I DISAGREE WITH BOMBAY HIGH COURT CONSIDERING ASTROLOGY AS SCIENCE.
RIDICULOUS!!!!
THANKS FOR REFERRAL MEENA...
By
Sairam. M, System Administrator
| 04 12 2011 06:55:51 +0000
The quality of astrological predictions (=horoscope) had been tested with scientific methods for quite some time, always with the same result: It does not work, the results are never your future, but it makes you feel strangely better. A scientist tested this once by making a horoscope for each of his students, based on the most scientific form of astrology, and then gave the horoscopes to his students...randomly, with only the scientist knowing which student got whose horoscope. Most students felt the horoscope applies to them, describes them well and is maybe really an accurate prediction of their future - and had been surprised when they learned the truth about whose horoscope it really was.
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manish , My a/c is not showing ..help toostep
| 02 24 2011 07:35:04 +0000
Rocks, gas balls and plasma balls hurtling around in space has nothing to do with the personalities of human beings. So, astrology is not science and it does not have any scientific credibility or backing.There is no science behind astrology.The only science behind it is in the science of money. How much can they relieve you of.
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manish , My a/c is not showing ..help toostep
| 02 24 2011 07:31:02 +0000
Dear Kiran Agree with your view point and that is what we are trying to explain. Astrology is not an abstract art but a subject that is conclusive and provable. Its a combination of maths and science and each planetary pehnomenon can be proved.
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Jaygopal Raghavan, Marketing Manager, Landmark Group
| 02 23 2011 17:16:02 +0000
- swami Vivekananda -I was once travelling in the Himalayas, and the long road stretched before us. We poor monks cannot get any one to carry us, so we had to make all the way on foot. There was an old man with us. The way goes up and down for hundreds of miles, and when that old monk saw what was before him, he said, “Oh sir, how to cross it; I cannot walk any more; my chest will break.” I said to him, “Look down at your feet.” He did so, and I said, “The road that is under your feet is the road that you have passed over and is the same road that you see before you; it will soon be under your feet.” The highest things are under your feet, because you are Divine Stars; all these things are under your feet. You can swallow the stars by the handful if you want; such is your real nature. Be strong, get beyond all superstitions, and be free.
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manish , My a/c is not showing ..help toostep
| 02 23 2011 13:43:00 +0000
- swami Vivekananda -If you want your nation to live, keep away from all these things. The only test of good things is that they make us strong. Good is life, evil is death. These superstitious ideas are springing like mushrooms in your country, and women wanting in logical analysis of things are ready to believe them. It is because women are striving for liberation, and women have not yet established themselves intellectually. One gets by heart a few lines of poetry from the top of a novel and says she knows the whole of Browning. Another attends a course of three lectures and then thinks she knows everything in the world. The difficulty is that they are unable to throw off the natural superstition of women. They have a lot of money and some intellectual learning, but when they have passed through this transition stage and get on firm ground, they will be all right. But they are played upon by charlatans. Do not be sorry; I do not mean to hurt anyone, but I have to tell the truth. Do you not see how open you are to these things? Do you not see how sincere these women are, how that divinity latent in all never dies? It is only to know how to appeal to the Divine.The more I live, the more I become convinced every day that every human being is divine. In no man or woman, however vile, does that divinity die. Only he or she does not know how to reach it and is waiting for the Truth. And wicked people are trying to deceive him or her with all sorts of fooleries. If one man cheats another for money, you say he is a fool and a blackguard. How much greater is the iniquity of one who wants to fool others spiritually! This is too bad. It is the one test, that truth must make you strong and put you above superstition. The duty of the philosopher is to raise you above superstition. Even this world, this body and mind are superstitions; what infinite souls you are! And to be tricked by twinkling stars! It is a shameful condition. You are divinities; the twinkling stars owe their existence to you.
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manish , My a/c is not showing ..help toostep
| 02 23 2011 13:40:44 +0000
There is an old story of an astrologer who came to a king and said, “You are going to die in six months.” The king was frightened out of his wits and was almost about to die then and there from fear. But his minister was a clever man, and this man told the king that these astrologers were fools. The king would not believe him. So the minister saw no other way to make the king see that they were fools but to invite the astrologer to the palace again. There he asked him if his calculations were correct. The astrologer said that there could not be a mistake, but to satisfy him he went through the whole of the calculations again and then said that they were perfectly correct. The king’s face became livid. The minister said to the astrologer, “And when do you think that you will die?” “In twelve years”, was the reply. The minister quickly drew his sword and separated the astrologer’s head from the body and said to the king, “Do you see this liar? He is dead this moment.”
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manish , My a/c is not showing ..help toostep
| 02 23 2011 13:39:06 +0000
I agree with mineself that astrologers are making fool of people and what's more annoying is that they are trying to prove that their knowledge is science and has scientific basis.Astrologers generally adopt the statistical theory of sampling where they try to treat people as groups possessing specific problems and tries out hopeless methods to rectify those.Human beings generally take the help of Astrologers when they are mentally down and the astrologers exploit this situation to their advantage.I think this is a kind of mental illness that many individuals possess.
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manish , My a/c is not showing ..help toostep
| 02 23 2011 13:37:51 +0000
I have seen some astrologers who predicted wonderful things; but I have no reason to believe they predicted them only from the stars, or anything of the sort. In many cases it is simply mind reading. Sometimes wonderful predictions are made, but in many cases it is arrant trash.If you can get an explanation of a phenomenon from within its nature, it is nonsense to look for an explanation from outside. If the world explains itself, it is nonsense to go outside for an explanation. Have you found any phenomena in the life of a man that you have ever seen which cannot be explained by the power of the man himself? So what is the use of going to the stars or anything else in the world? My own Karma is sufficient explanation of my present state. So in the case of Jesus himself. We know that his father was only a carpenter. We need not go to anybody else to find an explanation of his power. He was the outcome of his own past, all of which was a preparation for that Jesus. Buddha goes back and back to animal bodies and tells us how he ultimately became Buddha. So what is the use of going to stars for explanation? They may have a little influence; but it is our duty to ignore them rather than hearken to them and make ourselves nervous. This I lay down as the first essential in all I teach: anything that brings spiritual, mental, or physical weakness, touch it not with the toes of your feet. Religion is the manifestation of the natural strength that is in man. A spring of infinite power is coiled up and is inside this little body, and that spring is spreading itself. And as it goes on spreading, body after body is found insufficient; it throws them off and takes higher bodies. This is the history of man, of religion, civilization, or progress. That giant Prometheus, who is bound, is getting himself unbound. It is always a manifestation of strength, and all these ideas such as astrology, although there may be a grain of truth in them, should be avoided.- swami Vivekananda
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manish , My a/c is not showing ..help toostep
| 02 23 2011 13:36:01 +0000
Definition of Science: a branch of knowledge or study dealing with a body of facts or truths systematically arranged and showing the operation of general laws: the mathematical sciences.
By
manish , My a/c is not showing ..help toostep
| 02 23 2011 04:41:13 +0000
Dear Mr. Narayan You can continue to give examples , but I will not be convinced , unless you give an example of a living astrologer who has been , and continues to be , accurate to even 90 %. I consider meteorology a science because meteorologists , even though they are wrong even 90 % of time , continue to strive to approach the truth. Their methods are scientific , well documented , and open to criticism and review , both by the lay public and by well-informed peers. Astrology is not like this. Can anyone explain how the position of heavenly objects can influence people's lives ? If so , is there a theory to it , which , over the years , has come close to the truth ? Or is it just that astrologers keep collecting data and modifying their theories to suit the data ? I think I have said all I want to say on this subject. If you are personally convinced astrology is a science , you are entitled to your opinion. As for me , I will continue to believe it is not a science.
By
K. NARAYAN, None, None
| 02 15 2011 04:20:38 +0000
Dear Kiran, With each post you are displaying how degenerate you are.
By
Shahnawaz Islam, PR & Media Relations Manager, National Institute of Smart Governance
| 02 15 2011 03:39:53 +0000
Dear Kiran, Your posts reflect your vain mindset.
By
Shahnawaz Islam, PR & Media Relations Manager, National Institute of Smart Governance
| 02 14 2011 12:03:56 +0000
Dear Kiran, I am not surprised by your vitriolic and hateful behavior. Nothing more could be expected from you.
By
Shahnawaz Islam, PR & Media Relations Manager, National Institute of Smart Governance
| 02 14 2011 11:22:14 +0000
Dear Kiran, You made a personal remark when you stated "Please shanawaz, you can claim that I I have insulted some thing when you your self understand the subject or matter, which in this case I doubt, if you know what is quantum mechanism." And now you are complaining that I resorted to personal remarks. How interesting! You are asking me to be grow up and be more professional but what about you? You have cast a doubt about my understanding of quantum mechanism instead of talking abou the point of " research and observation" that I had raised. Grow up Kiran, and answer my point if you can.
By
Shahnawaz Islam, PR & Media Relations Manager, National Institute of Smart Governance
| 02 14 2011 10:33:07 +0000
Dear Kiran, It is shocking that you refuse to accept that in order to be called a science it should be backed by research and observation. And yet you persist in posting random comments. Obviously you believe that copying and inserting definitions will automatically prove that astrology is a science. It is also obvious that you have absolutely no respect for the endeavors of scientist in terms of research and observation. Not me, nor anyone on this forum needs to prove any understanding about quantum mechanism. But you do need to understand that by believing that if the stars foretell your future you are automatically implying that logic does not lead to action. Before asking about my understanding of quantum mechanism you need to yourself give explanation about it, since it is you who is trying to imply the connection between it and astrology, regardless of the unsubstantiated nature of astrology. You are asking about my understanding of quantum physics so I will ask you about your understanding about logic itself? Do you even have an inkling of what logic actually is.? It appears that you are not thinking at all and only posting randomly. You have tried to convert everything into a science which involves counting or even thinking. And yet you are supporting astrology. So far you have posted only dubious material in your posts and are now showing doubts about other people's understanding. It is actually your understanding that is called into question.
By
Shahnawaz Islam, PR & Media Relations Manager, National Institute of Smart Governance
| 02 14 2011 09:54:54 +0000
Dear Mr. Nair , Your quote of George Iles is surprising , since he was a science author ! Your second sentence highlights the problem with astrology fanatics - they have passed from doubt to certainty !
By
K. NARAYAN, None, None
| 02 14 2011 09:38:29 +0000
Dear Mr. Sharma , Let me try and answer your questions. 1. When we talk of science , we can mean two things - the subjects like mathematics , physics , chemistry ,... which are called scientific subjects. We also mean the scientific methodology which believes that any principle , in order to be accepted as a scientific principle , must satisfy certain conditions viz. the principle should be capable of rigorous proof and it should not have any exceptions , unless the exceptions can also be explained by the principle. If I am not a good mathematician , it does not mean that mathematics itself is unscientific. That is because mathematical principles are available for everyone , not just for a few. Thus , they are open to criticism and review. If even one person in the world can disprove Pythagoras' theorem , the scientific community would accept it as disproved. Again , if Pythagoras' theorem fails for even one right-angled triangle , it would disprove his theorem. Unfortunately , this openness is absent in astrology and even in some of the debaters here ! 2. Ayurveda has not been accepted by mainstream medicine because its principles cannot be explained in an objective manner. It is up to Ayurveda and its practitioners if they wish to bring a certain rigour into the subject. This is not true only of Ayurveda. Even mainstream medicine is critical of its own successes. That is the reason a cure has not been found for even the common cold ! A Nobel prize winner , Dr. Linus Pauling , advocated the use of Vitamin C , in large doses , as a cure for the common cold. Science did not accept this because it could not find a scientific explanation for the way in which Vitamin C helped. We are not debating whether astrology is good or bad , or it works or does not. We are debating the process by which astrology relates the position of heavenly objects to human beings' lives , and their chances of success / failure. Is this process well documented ? Is it applicable universally ? Will the results be the same each and every time , given the same inputs and conditions ? Are the results predictable based on the theory , or are they to be interpreted by an "astrologer" ? Scientific theory does not need a scientist for interpretation ; anyone can understand Einstein's theory of relativity , provided they are educated enough. A lot of scientists have even disputed his theory , and offered their own alternative theories. Eventually , the most successful theory gets adopted by the scientific community. Can you say the same about astrology ?
By
K. NARAYAN, None, None
| 02 14 2011 09:34:42 +0000
Dear Ms Kiran "The uncertainty principle of quantum mechanics applies to astrology as well." --> Don't insult quantum mechanics by comparing it to astrology. Astrology is not based on the kind of research and observation that quantum mechanics is based on.
By
Shahnawaz Islam, PR & Media Relations Manager, National Institute of Smart Governance
| 02 14 2011 09:28:47 +0000
Dear Mr Sharma, Many students attempt a mathematical equation yet not all succeed with right answer, would you go on to say mathematics is unscientific? --> The answer is reviewed in order to be termed or not termed as a success, and this is recorded for further review, when called into question. This is unlike astrology where the practitioners' do not submit to peer review, boards, committees, etc. Ayurveda, does not have the scientific backing in terms of clinical trials does it make it nonscientific.--> Why you are attacking Ayurveda in a debate about Astrology is a mystery best solved by you alone. The very definition of science that we have learnt is from a system that is not older than the knowledge of ancient systems. And suffiecient re-research has not been done to uncover and learn them through presently known systems of scrutiny. --> This is sufficient criteria to dismiss the claims of astrology as a science.
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Shahnawaz Islam, PR & Media Relations Manager, National Institute of Smart Governance
| 02 14 2011 09:21:50 +0000
Dear Mr Bhatia, "Though that is not the point" >> It seems that you are not sure whether or not you wish to make your point. Why did you talk about the scientists and claim in a previous post "Even some of the great scientists, one, for example Isaac Newton had studied celestial mechanics and terrestrial dynamics and found a relation in a way that endorses the tenets of astrology. " So far you have only posted links containing random unsubstantiated material.
By
Shahnawaz Islam, PR & Media Relations Manager, National Institute of Smart Governance
| 02 14 2011 08:54:15 +0000
Dear Mr. Pandey , "Why will I tell you even if I know ?" Science does not believe in such an attitude. Enough said.
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K. NARAYAN, None, None
| 02 14 2011 08:50:07 +0000
Dear Mr. Bhatia , After going through most of the posts in this debate , is it not surprising to see the names which figure in the arguments for astrology ? Nostradamus , Isaac Newton , Einstein ! This is like talking about the greatness of Indian science by mentioning Aryabhatta and Panini !
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K. NARAYAN, None, None
| 02 14 2011 08:48:45 +0000
Dear Mr. Nair , After going through the article whose link you have mentioned in support of your argument , I would like to say two things : 1. The article is a theory propounded by the author. It was published in 2007 , with the words "Discussion is invited". Till date , there is not a single comment. I leave it to you to form your own opinion. 2. I would request you and others to go through the following link : http://skeptico.blogs.com/skeptico/2009/08/shawn-carlson-astrology-test-nature-suitbert-ertel-reappraisal.html
By
K. NARAYAN, None, None
| 02 14 2011 08:41:40 +0000
Dear Mr. Pandey , I have said it earlier , and I will say it again. In case you know an astrologer who is even 90 % accurate , please give his details in these columns , so that some of us may benefit.
By
K. NARAYAN, None, None
| 02 14 2011 08:35:11 +0000
Dear Mr. Bhatia , I appreciate your views. Let us however discuss one point you have mentioned viz. the inaccurate results of astrology. In science , we always believe in approaching the truth i.e. we formulate a hypothesis which explains observed phenomena , and then carry out experiments to determine how accurate our hypothesis is , in explaining existing phenomena. Then , if we are great enough , we can even explain how unobserved phenomena will fit into our hypothesis. That is how Einstein's theory was verified ; he had predicted that light from a distant object would bend as it passed around a heavy gravitational force , such as the sun. At the time Einstein made this prediction , it could not be verified because technology had not caught up with science. Years later , this prediction was verified. The point I am making is that mistakes are also a part of science ; the beauty of science is that we hold that to be true which comes closest to the truth , even though it may not be able to explain the entire truth. Till such time another theory comes up , which can explain the truth to a greater extent , we will continue to believe in that theory which most accurately explains the truth. Astrology being an ancient subject , and human beings , planets and stars and everything else connected with astrology having been there for thousands of years , by now we should have come very close to the truth. This is certainly not the case. Even today , astrology may be accurate for a person in one case ; no person has certified that astrology has worked for him / her consistently all his / her life. If astrology is a matter of trial and error / chance , then we cannot , in any sense , call it a science.
By
K. NARAYAN, None, None
| 02 14 2011 07:59:37 +0000
Dear Mr. Pandey , You are trying to have your cake and eat it too ! On one hand you say that astrology makes predictions about a person's future ; in the same breath , you say that if the person takes the right actions , he can overturn the predictions and change his future ! If a person can create his future / destiny by his own proper actions , then how can any one say that astrology can predict a person's future ? Suppose I tell my child that he will fail in his exams ; that is a prediction I am making. Now , in the same breath , if I tell him / her that if he / she studies , then success is guaranteed. So which "prediction" of mine is a real "prediction" ? If this is the case , then it is only common-sense , not science !
By
K. NARAYAN, None, None
| 02 14 2011 07:48:10 +0000
Dear Mr. Narayan , While you say that astrology is a science with certain "conditions" , one of those conditions is surprising - that one can overturn the predictions of astrology ( not astrologer ) by focused clear-mindedness ! Does chemistry say that when hydrogen and oxygen combine to form water , sometimes they may form alcohol , provided the experimenter is focused and clear-minded ? Can anyone nullify the gravitational force ? Please don't quote from Hindu mythology ; is there anyone alive today who can do this ?
By
K. NARAYAN, None, None
| 02 14 2011 06:41:56 +0000
Dear Mr. Bhatia , Whether Newton believed in astrology or Einstein did so is immaterial. A lot of scientists supported Hitler ; does that make his principles valid ? Science does not say that something is true because a great mind has believed in it ; even Einstein's theory of relativity has been questioned by other scientists. The theory that light consists of particles has been questioned by those who are in favour of wave theory. Science believes in a principle only if it is proved beyond doubt. And to prove something beyond doubt requires that the principle satisfies all existing situations , and those which may crop up in future. Even a single instance against the principle is enough to disprove it.
If you know any astrologer who is accurate beyond doubt , kindly share his details with us.
By
K. NARAYAN, None, None
| 02 14 2011 06:35:22 +0000
Dear Mr Narayan, It appears you are not reading your own posts or thinking them through before posting. Please check the post where I spoke about counting rotis and try to understand what it was in response before randomly typing something just for the sake of argument.
By
Shahnawaz Islam, PR & Media Relations Manager, National Institute of Smart Governance
| 02 13 2011 19:27:17 +0000
Dear Mr Bhatia, The first quote makes a reference to the astronomical observation and not to astrology, let alone astrology as a science. The second quote is suspect, and I give you credit for showing doubt about it.
By
Shahnawaz Islam, PR & Media Relations Manager, National Institute of Smart Governance
| 02 13 2011 14:31:55 +0000
Dear Mr Bhatia, The quote about Isaac Newton has been decried as being falsely attributed to him. Please check the following link on the issue:http://web.archive.org/web/20080629021908/http://www.skepticreport.com/predictions/newton.htm
By
Shahnawaz Islam, PR & Media Relations Manager, National Institute of Smart Governance
| 02 13 2011 14:25:16 +0000
Dear Mr Jain, "It also can be said.... science to be still in its primitive age as still our very existence is based upon an assumption of the 'big bang' --> Kindly explain why the assumption of the big bang is considered primitive by you. "Whereas in astrology; without computers & telescopes, some fine knowledgeable & pious souls were able to understand this whole pattern & developed a systematized study of our Moon, different planets,,Nakshatras,,Dashas... etc,,,and their effects on Earth & human beings due to the very similarity of basic Pacha-Tatva,,,,and here Brihma is the big bang!" --> This so-called pattern is mere conjecture as it based on lack of properly recorded data.
By
Shahnawaz Islam, PR & Media Relations Manager, National Institute of Smart Governance
| 02 13 2011 14:07:18 +0000
Dear Mr Narayan, I see that you have just posted an opinion reply and not read my post properly. You have stated that "counting and eating roties does fall under a science". The question is not whether it falls or doesn't fall under a science, the question is whether it is a science. I hope you understand that counting roties will not automatically fall under a science, if the weight and number is not recorded and the variables are not manipulated in subsequent experiments.
By
Shahnawaz Islam, PR & Media Relations Manager, National Institute of Smart Governance
| 02 13 2011 13:42:38 +0000
nopes !! its not a science, its just a field of imagination & tricks. Astrology doesn't effect human life cycle b'coz reality need some real facts to be real in itself while astrology is jst an imagination.....
By
Sohail Khan, HR Executive, AAR Pvt. Ltd.
| 02 13 2011 12:40:15 +0000
It is a fact of life that people emulate successful, popular and respected persons. Seeing the social status enjoyed by astrologers, charlatans started masquerading as astrologers. They learnt a few tricks of the trade and started duping gullible people. It was and still is a very lucrative business. An astrologer earns money by making predictions while giving no guarantee that any of his predictions will turn out to be true. There is no money back guarantee :-). Once an astrologer sets up shop, people start coming to him in the hope that may be he will be able to foresee their future correctly. The astrologer is in a wonderful position. For example, he may make predictions about ten persons, getting only one prediction right. The nine persons, about whom he predicted wrongly, will never come back to him. But the tenth person, about which the astrologer was able to predict correctly, will not only come back to him again but also refer many other persons to him, citing personal experience. In this way, the business of an astrologer always flourishes, no matter how he himself fares in his trade. But the downside of this was that astrologers, as a group, started being seen as a lot of dubious persons like politicians of the modern age. Once such impression started gaining ground, Astrology as a subject no longer remained attractive to intelligent persons. People, who had talent, started to pursue other fields of knowledge. Over a period of time, the inevitable happened. No talent, worth its salt, chose to pursue Astrology as a vocation or a hobby and the outcome of this is for everyone to see in the present times.
By
manish , My a/c is not showing ..help toostep
| 02 12 2011 09:18:11 +0000
Dear Kiran, I use mathematics to count the rotis I eat at dinner but my counting rotis is not a science, similarly mathematics is used by astrology and it is also not a science.
By
Shahnawaz Islam, PR & Media Relations Manager, National Institute of Smart Governance
| 02 11 2011 17:42:25 +0000
astrology is couch potato
By
manish , My a/c is not showing ..help toostep
| 02 11 2011 04:49:42 +0000
We really dont know if astrology has been tested systematically. There is no recodrs of any statistics when on application of astrology on humanbeings. Astrology is a science to the extent that it is a mathematics to determin the planetary positions in the sky known at that time. May it is usefull to study it systamaticlly even now. But it is only misused to make money, terrorise people in the name of god and planets.
By
K LAXMINARAYANA RAO, Freelancer
| 02 11 2011 04:24:10 +0000
Dear Mr Bhatiaji, As detailed in my previous post, it is obvious that by using definition of science, one cannot claim astrology as a science. It is not unfortunate that data patterns in Astrology are not recorded, this lack of recorded data patterns means that astrology cannot be claimed as a science. Also, instances are only the starting point for study. These are used as anecdotes, which propel the beginning of controlled observation, experimentation, variable manipulation, peer review, attestation by superiors, etc. Actually, it is the sciences which have faced discouragement, neglect and even prosecution. Isaac Newton's studies on planets were specific to physics (Book III of Principia) and not to astrology. The relations he explored do not endorse the tenets of astrology. However, I would welcome any reference that you can post from Isaac Newton's book to prove your point. If a person performs an action (e.g. cooking food, serving tables, or analyzing horoscopes) which is systematic, logical and based on rules, it does not make the repeated performing of that action into a science, it makes it into a profession. Astrology has received encouragement and support and continues to do so(including on this forum), and yet it is not moving towards becoming a science.
By
Shahnawaz Islam, PR & Media Relations Manager, National Institute of Smart Governance
| 02 09 2011 09:15:31 +0000
@sharma You have alleged that my statement "at best conveys what remains in use is science and what is lost or rediscovered is not science?" Please read my previous post carefully before posting. I have not absolutely not touched upon existing versus lost or rediscovered. If you are sure of yourself please paste the statement from my previous post which conveyed this to you. What scientific literature is lost should be regarded as lost. If a group of books on scientific experiments is lost in the library, you can get emotional about it and talk about good that group of books were but that does not make them magically appear. If person X discovers a scientific formula, I have to give the theorem and the proofs. If it is science, it will be accepted on the basis of proofs not on the basis of pleasant talk. Astrology has not crossed several stages of accuracy tests. Please post the results of the experiments, controlled environment studies, journals, etc if you claim that accuracy tests have been crossed. Please state the name of the experimenter and the time and date of these tests, who peer reviewed the results, and how these were replicated and in which environment, and with which variables, etc. Kindly post the qualitative and quantitative metholody, the hypothesis proven/ disproven, the results, etc. The accuracy of the calendar is on the basis of astronomy not on basis of astrology.
By
Shahnawaz Islam, PR & Media Relations Manager, National Institute of Smart Governance
| 02 09 2011 08:16:43 +0000
Dear Mr Surajhala, Please read through the other postings and see why it cannot be classified as a science. You have blamed people for failing in interpretation, rather than blaming astrology itself. But this can be used as an excuse for justifying anything and everything. I can hurl abuse at anyone and then blame the victim for interpreting it wrongly. You have also tried to sneak in a comment about gay marriages, and living together, and pass a judgement about these issues in the middle of this debate for some strange reason best known to you alone. I would urge you to restrict yourself to stating the reasons why astrology should be considered as a science.
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Shahnawaz Islam, PR & Media Relations Manager, National Institute of Smart Governance
| 02 09 2011 07:33:44 +0000
Dear Mr Bhatia, You have admitted that "progress of Astrology and its data patterns for predictions have not been recorded as it should have done" so how can you still call it a science?
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Shahnawaz Islam, PR & Media Relations Manager, National Institute of Smart Governance
| 02 09 2011 07:13:45 +0000
Dear Mr Narayan, Your answer contradicts itself at different levels. Let's take the first point of the definition itself and we can see that astrology is 100% not a science at all. "1. a branch of knowledge or study dealing with a body of facts or truths systematically arranged" --> Astrology does not deal with facts and truths, it deals with random predictions by self-professed experts. There are no facts and truths ascertained in astrology, because there is no theorem and no proof and no replications. The stars are not put in any laboratory conditions nor are the people whose lives are being allegedly played upon by the stars. Additionally, there is controlled group, no dependent variable and no independent variable defined at the beginning of the observation, and there is no variable manipulation. Also there is no systematic knowledge in astrology as information is not recorded in data clusters, regression mean square is not carried out, X and Y axis is not plotted out, time-stamped journals are not maintained and shared with superiors and peer-review committees, qualitative surveys of individuals and groups are not carried out. Coming up with a theory on how astrology would have achieved greatness will not convert astrology into a science. If I use mathematics to count how much words I am typing in this message then my practice of counting the words will not automatically qualify to be called as a science and similarly because astrology uses various methods , it does not mean that astrology can qualify to be called as a science. If I study the outcome of posting this message, then my style of posting messages will not qualify to be called a science, and similarly just because astrology has allegedly studied some outcomes it will not automatically qualify to be called a science.
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Shahnawaz Islam, PR & Media Relations Manager, National Institute of Smart Governance
| 02 09 2011 06:35:24 +0000
We need not learn astrology even if it is a science since it is being misused to propagate blind faiths and loot the poor
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K LAXMINARAYANA RAO, Freelancer
| 02 09 2011 05:38:36 +0000
Astrology is misused by people since the time it is known to the mankind and the misuse is continuing even now. Cant we live without it. I dont think there is any need to learn astrolgy. Instead teach moral values, ethics.
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K LAXMINARAYANA RAO, Freelancer
| 02 09 2011 05:36:44 +0000
Dear Mr. Narayan , You have equated astrology with mathematics ; is that a genuine belief or just an attempt to debate ? The discovery of gravity is not just the discovery that objects fall to earth ; it is the attempt to formulate the mathematical equations governing this force , and how closely these equations mimic reality that makes the discovery of the gravitational force such an earth-shaking event. Science , whether it be mathematics , physics , chemistry , medicine ... is full of such momentous discoveries / inventions. Can you cite even one such credible discovery from the "science" of astrology ?
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K. NARAYAN, None, None
| 02 09 2011 05:18:16 +0000
When all stars r in the right configuration every one will say that astrology is a science and if it is vice versa then it goes without saying it is not a science. Perhaps you are aware the 13th planet recently discovered the question will arise where to account this and what are its powers. if we accept astrology as a science and what about Nostradamus predictions. It is a subjective phenomenon.
By
sudhakar , BUSINESS CONSULTANT
| 02 08 2011 16:20:48 +0000
Dear Mr Dar -- when people admire the beauty of the moon, one can provide reasoning for that act or practice of admiration, but a series of acts or practices cannot be called science simply because there is reasoning behind it.
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Shahnawaz Islam, PR & Media Relations Manager, National Institute of Smart Governance
| 02 08 2011 14:30:17 +0000
We are still exploring Planets - and we are not sure how many are there - So how can we call it Science - I think the Judge should go back to school - Primary or he should watch Discovery channel
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Moses Raj, Media Planning Executive/Manager, Media Box
| 02 08 2011 13:41:19 +0000
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