Is Race / Caste / Religion discrimination seen while recruiting, in HR Manager ???

HINDU... MUSLIM... SIKH... CHRISTIAN ...

WHITE... BROWN... BLACK... YELLOW ...

Somewhere it is Caste, Somewhere it is Colour... Discrimination EXISTS, whether Caste, Creed or Colour.

THATS THE FACT & LETS FACE IT !

nice .... a dozen cans of virtual sprite EJ...

Priyanka,

To get good results there are companies who prefer people from there owncommunity / religion / caste maybe by doing this their growth might be on lower side but it will not be soo bad that it will affect co.

Deepti,

I 100% agree with you. I can imagine/understand what you have gone through!! We Bhramins suffer the maxx!!!! we are taken for granted because we do not speak up against all this but one good thing is there are some companies who prefer Bhramins because company owners are Bhramins however such companies are pretty handful.

Geeta,

Seems like you have not understood the topic of discussion we are talking about race/caste/religion discrimination & not about facing interview by any chance are you trying to say if a candidate does do well in interview he should criticized for his race/caste/religion? Wow what a logic!!!!

I do agree with the statement. Its completely apt for the current world scenario. Even today there is a doubt in every one's mind whether that person be loyal or not, whether an organization can trust the concerned candidate or not and everything is judged by one's religion which is at the apex of the priority list apart from that caste is also considered because of the reservation fact. We cannot deny the fact that the recruiters simply neglect all these known facts. But at the same time there are many people who have  secular and biased ideology who treat everyone as equal and these petty obstacles are not above humanity. And I salute those people and these are the people who can actually lead our nation at top.

a big darn YES  in INDIA .... AND THAT'S WHY WE HAVE ?????

Mr. Narayan,

HR may be highly qualified but they still have to take orders from their Managements, thus the practice of discriminatory recruitments in certain entities, do persist.

Though I myself has never faced any kind of bias, due to my unique credentials, during the last Two & Half Decades, I have been witness to several such instances of irrational preferences over the professional ones in recruitment, in many big-time corporates & institutions, most of which are under the tight leash of the Family Owners, Founders or their Biological Successors.

Dear Mr. Narayan,

Let us get back to the question: About discrimination by HR. If there is discrimination or not?

We Indians should, certainly, feel rightly proud about our glorious past. Our scriptures, our music, and dance and sculptures…

We can legitimately feel proud of our great achievements of the present. The rockets, missiles, mission to moon, and the speed at which the economy is growing, when the West is yet to fully recover from the recession.

Yet, here is a sad comparison of the people of India today with the people of China, Pakistan and Bangladesh (No comparison with the West):

• India might be the fastest growing economy in the world after China, but the quality of life in India still leaves much to be desired, with the country ranked a measly 134 among 182 countries on the Human Development Index (HDI) of the United Nations Development Programme (UNDP).
• India ranked 134 among 182 countries in 2007, the same as the ranking for 2006, which was released last year. Pakistan moved up one rank to 141, China moved up seven ranks to 92 and Bangladesh moved up two ranks to 146, compared to last year’s rankings. [Source: http://news.indiamart.com/news-analysis/india-ranks-low-on-u-22918.html]

Certainly, this news is no music to the ears of anyone who loves his/her country. We can’t sit back and say, “Where is the need to change?” unless we are on the side of those who benefit by the development, and don’t care for those who are not benefiting by the development.

That our country could not move up even one point in the rank, in spite of its rapid economic growth, stands witness to the reality that benefits of growth do not reach everyone equally. Obviously, there is discrimination in the larger society that helps a few reap most of the benefits!

What discriminations obtain in the larger society gets reflected in the corporate world, too: In our decisions on recruitment, pay, retention and promotion.  

Until we become conscious of how we discriminate, and how it hurts the common interest of the company as well as the country, we will be left wondering “Where is the need to Change?”

Dear Mr.Narayanan,

Thanks for the response. You are right in saying, “If a child is taught to discriminate between good and bad, this learning can last all its life.”

That precisely is the problem. The inability to change for a whole lifetime!

And, when you say, this learning is in "some way related to intelligence", you are only reinforcing the inability of the child to go beyond that learning, since it thinks what it holds on to is "intelligent".

But a lot is at stake if we can't break free of some crucial cultural learnings, as pointed out by Mr.Narayana Murthy in the following speech: 

http://www.pagalguy.com/forum/cat-and-related-discussion/295-speech-narayana-murthy-infosys-lbsim.html

This speech highlights a few values that we Indian have not learned to change for thousands of years!

With so little sense of value for that which is common, with so little value the dignity of human labour, don’t we have miles to go, before we could say we build Companies that are devoid of discrimination? Are not the many threads in this argument referring to 'family owned' companies, pointing to our inability to look at talents beyond castes/creeds/beliefs and beards?

Arulraja.

TRUE TRUE TRUE TRRRRRUE TRRRRRRRRRRRRRRUE TRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRUE TRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRUE

DISCRIMINATION is used as per Convenience !

However much we deny this fact, it will remain a Fact. There are thousands of Companies which use this practice, to suit their CONVENIENCE LEVELS...

The day they are cornered & they realise that the Best Man for the Job, available is of X Religion ( which they normally would avoid )... They will Hire Him / Her.

Because at that time their Business is more important... but in general, they avoid it like Plague.

India... where we claim it's UNITY IN DIVERSITY... also has another side to it. It is actually a country which should be called USI ( United States of India ), where every state has its own fundas & acts as per their own sweet convenience.

Thats why in my First Argument, I had stressed... Leaving aside Metros, this practice is more or less evident everywhere.

Lets stop debating & let the HR Heads start acting... POSITIVELY for a change.   

Yes this is true for many areas not only for HR Manager, specially in the developing countries.

Most importantly HR manager can play a leading role in correcting the problem. The owners / directors of the conmpany can be educated / enlightened on the matter. HR manager can develop a company policy for recruitment and it will help to stramline the process. In developing the HR pllicy HR must win the hearts of all the other sections and should create the ownership of the other departments to make it effective.

It's normal in recruitment to look for a 'fit' between the organizational, job, and employee characteristics. To that extent, caste, religion, region, etc. may be factors in selection and recruitment. For example, cultural affinity may cause some person of a certain class / caste / region / religion to be selected or rejected. Like in a family-owned organization, the top managers may like to select people from the caste that the family belongs to on the assumption that they may have loyal employees worthy of keeping family secrets whom they can retain and give responsibility to. This may or may not turn out to be true. But then it happens.

Race, caste and religion belong to the collective hypnosis which were subjected to when we were babies. No one is born with any awareness, or with an innate ability to distinguish between race, caste, religion, or, even, the gender; or, what is edible and what is not. Anything - even the dirt it produced - will go into the mouth of a baby, without any difficulty.

But, a grown up has learned to feel what someone eats to be revolting, and what some others eat to be attracting. It all depends on who that someone is. If it is the group you belong to, it is one feeling, and if it is others, it is a different feeling?

Our distinctions - and our decisions - have as their basis this attraction/repulsion feelings. We are constantly guided by this attraction/repulsion feelings, and not by any sublime gift of intelligence that we are born with.

One tends to hang by the particular branch of his/her religion till death, just because that's what gives a comfortable feeling. Very rarely does one try a different branch of the same religion, for a change?

There is no automatic liberation from such deep seated feelings that guide our actions. Hence, there is discrimination: No industry has its employees' population distribution distribution matching general population's distribution. 

You may say, "The imbalance is due to the discrimination in the larger society? And, as there are not enough educated women as men, there are also not as many women in the Company!" 

That's the question: Are we in Industry following the Social discriminations or are we setting new trends?

As we follow the social pressures that arise from within our hearts, and from outside, there is, still, discrimination taking place on all the counts mentioned above.

What is really important is that we need to become aware of our deep tendencies, and work scientifically to break free, so we can build a strong body Corporate.

We need training to learn:

1. Most distinctions are based on discriminations! Eg. My preference to my branch of religion is because I am convinced other branches are not as good as mine. And, so with food habits et al.
2. Science that helps us to look at the idiosyncrasies of one's peculiar values, beliefs, identity or spirituality/meaning system - which we have assumed to be true (Got from my parents?) - and help us laugh at our assumptions, and that
3. leads us to a new awareness that will immensely help us build a coherent body corporate, so we can dream together, work together, to build a new society in the corporate.

Hence, those who shave off their beard think that not having a beard is behaving normal; while those with beard claim it is normal that beard grows on grown up men? For all our intellectual upbringings, we might find human hair to be a cause of communal harmony!

Yes, 'barba' means beard. But, barbarians mean more than one with a beard! The extra meaning is what we acquired by our culture. It's all feelings! No brains!!! 

I do really support your view dreast Darshana,in today world HR is looking for Excellence not for religous in recurting new employee.In multiculture environment poeple looking for quality in service industry and production also.

come to dubai...... and see where jobs are announced on the basis of ............

Yes castism does happen in India I have seen it more in Maharashtra the max!! I have stayed in Guj for 25yrs inspite of being a Maharashtrian I never had any issues in Guj but in Maha I have experienced it on personal & professional level.

One of the recruitment company where I worked for in Pune owner was a UP guy after I joined I came to know he mainly preferred people from UP luckly I was hired I was racially abused inspite of being a Maharashtrian Bhramin guy, I was even abused by Maharashtrians!!!!!

I was shocked to experience all this!!! Unfortunately our law asks for some kind of affidavit for such cases, in such cases USA is better.

Maybe in USA there mgith be rascial abuse but we cannot deny Obama won with max majority from support of "white skin" people.

Some times I feel what Raj Thakkray does is right but we Bhramins are abused by his community also & we are mainly abused because there are some Bhramins who eat non-veg also & according to them since Bhramins have started eating non-veg prices have touched they sky!!!

Well.... I can go on & on for this topic but need to apply break. 

We wear ‘the garbs of refinement’, after acquiring our Degrees and hate discussing the ugly aspects of the society.  And societal attitudes do percolate even into the corporates.  Education has given us this refined outlook but sadly the same education hasn’t given everyone else that cosmopolitan perspective.

Most ‘Employee Forms’ would have coloumns like, place of birth, Mother Tongue, other known langauges, names of institutions where we have studied (if it is fulltime or partime or distance course), family back-ground, sex, nationality, religion and what have you?  IF THIS IS NOT PROFILING, WHAT ELSE IS? These forms haven't changed much since British were ruling us.

No doubt, you may not catch a firm’s ‘Employee Form’ having a coloumn for ‘Caste’, but there are several suble ways by which the employers try to find out the applicant’s caste & food-habits and in some cases they were very blunt in asking whether they belong to a particular caste or no. 

However, hard it is to believe, certain realities of society cannot be wished away.

yeah, many times many places it happening....being a HR professional , it was a cultural shock for me..  I have seen it personally in 2-3 companies where whole HR Dept is consisting of one particular cast + region with 1-2 exceptional cases ..even while getting promotion or transfers these people follow the same practice..it is just not acceptable....[ cant name the company & the cast mentioned, as I am secular - not against of that particular cast +regions people & believe in section on the basis of Merit , & skill set required]...as an employee many times u are on reviving end thats why you cant say anything against such issues. sad but its true...wake up HR People & face the truth..& do something serious about it... collectively...

Sadly I have to agree although it may not be the bench mark but definitely  a detrimental factor . I have to add here that one factor is there is gross discrimination against candidates who have graduated out of universities in  distance education streams as well.

Yes,It does exist everywhere here in Gulf.Not in my Company though but in entire GCC countries Keralites are favoured.

what about favouritism,Sycophancy napotism?

All the above may ruin the careers of many aspiring candidates.I have also suffered due to this in my earlier organisation here in  Oman itself.

But who will stop it?

Just might is right!!!

Jiski Lathi uski Bhais!

Good Debate,Diwan.

Not exactly,

In Hyderabad, in certain institutions, the preference is for Tamil speaking, Brahmins in some branches of certain MNCs it is Keralites, Bengalis, et al.

In another one it is vegetarians only.

Elsewhere, within Hyderabad, it is Reddys or Kammas or Velamas, who occupy the top-slots.  There can be exceptions for lower rung vacancies, who could be qualified to hold those positions and run the show for their bosses.

I am sorry to say the above, despite my being a nuetral professional who belives that all recruitments must be based on competencies.  However, to this one of my bosses retorts that as he owns the company can’t he have a right to do recruitments of his preference than talking fairness & equal opportunities? after all we are Indians and we still prefer our businesses run by our heirs, rather than professionals as is vogue in the West.

Diwan,

Due to "beard" some persons objected. 

I guess they might also object if I were to sport a religious pigtail to office (in typical Hindu fashion) and wear a tilaka (not the fashionable red mark, but actual tilaka as per my dharma).

So the problem is the beard. If one is working, one needs to make some compromises with their appearance, just for the sake of work etiquette.

For those who prefer religion over work, they do have the choice to not work in places where there religion is not regarded adequately.

Not to sound rude, we must understand the reality.

Even I am required to maintain a pigtail, tilaka etc as per my religion : but its a compromise for the job that I hold. 

Why can't your friend with beard compromise as well ?

It totally agree with Mr. Rao, specially in Family run business with traditional roots, the recruitment is biased and highly discriminotary, but for businesses which have grown far beyond the patriarch's professional expertise, they are forced to hire professionals.

Why even for big business houses- the heads and key portfolios are in the hands of trusted few among their relatives and immediate family.

Tatas, Ambanis, Godrej, Jindals are no exceptions.

To be frank, they look at your qualities, past performance, CV etc.

Only the best person is hired for a job.

But let us accept it : human beings are biased : they can never be impartial. Every city in the country has its favorites : In Mumbai it might be the Marathi manoos (as also in Pune),  in Hyderabad it is the Telugu speakers, in Chennai its the Tamil speakers, in Bangalore : there are lobbies  of Tamil/Telugu/Kannada/Malayalam groups.

In Delhi, you need to be a Punjabi or a "baniya".

I do not wish to say that the caste/language/communal factor is so rampant, but at the same time it is present in enough quantity that it cannot be altogether ignored.

Speaking the language of your boss certainly endears you to him or her.

Similarly, I was told during my work in Wipro Hyderabad by my PM that I must learn to speak Telugu in order to be able to discuss the technical issues better.

No hard feelings from my side, but the language factor does exist in the south as does the caste factor esp in Delhi/Noida.

Especially some family managed, tightly held, companies do practice some form of descriminatory recruitment policies.

Well for high-tech. jobs, even they do not have choice than to go with the talent pool available.

NOT IN METRO CITIES... But in B Towns & Smaller Centres... YES !

Im saying this out of personally known experiences. However much we try to negate it, this fact remains a fact and A BLOT on our Democratic Values.

Let me make myself more explicit... this fact does not prevail in Multinationals & Big Corporates. They go purely on merits & capabilities, but there is a huge sector of the other companies which carry on this practice...

In Canada, its very interesting to note... In any Employment Form you fill across the country, 2 details are never Asked on the Form - AGE & RELIGION !

These two questions are not present on the Form... I wish we could have the same in India too. 

HR of any company shld only have the criteria of Performance in mind while recruiting, at the same time the Management of the Company should allow them a free hand on the same.

After all arguments, the fact remains that - This Practice is ON & there are a few states ( which I wld not like to name ) where this fact is stronger.

Happy Debating Friends !   

Yes, I came to a person in real life. He was selected in interview for the post of  Manager in North Gujarat in IIHT. But due to his Beard he was stated clearly that you cannot work though you are Mastersss .......