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Topic : How should be your Boss?
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HR Professionals

 
Started by : Darshana Sawant, HR Manager, Leading IT services company   12 21 2009 10:32:48 +0000
Industry : Human Resources (HR) ConsultingFunctional Area : Talent Management(People Management)
Activity:  622 views;  last activity : 07 06 2010 20:18:09 +0000

According to a recent survey done by China Market Research Group, it is said that women often complain that men are preferred for promotion rather than women. Most women feel there is some flaw in their work but most men have nothing against working for a female boss. Only a minority of men object.

http://i.l.cnn.net/cnn/2009/LIVING/worklife/03/16/cb.prefer.which.gender.boss/art.cb.male.female.jpg

In fact, men prefer a female boss, because of the greater likelihood she'd understand the need for work-life balance. But with all this, why do you think bosses don't promote women employees?

 
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1 2 3 4 5
1 To get the projects done on time and without getting any hassle!!
2 Dont Agree
3 Most women don't ask for a raise
4 Glass Ceiling !
5 Depends
6 Womens are not handle some tasks at some situations.
7 why bosses don't promote women employees?
8 It is all case by case
9 They promote but only oracled ones.
10 conflict of ideas,mentality,thoughts
11 Male bonding and ease of communication
12 one's upbringing
13 jealosy
14 Culture Influence
15 Due to Women.s dual responsibility.
16 Say Ego or the mental block.
17 Inconsistency in committment
18 Stereotypes
19 Nikhil Senior Manager Insurance
20 Depends
21 It Depends
22 This is not same with Banking Industry

To get the projects done on time and without getting any hassle!!

idea posted by Satwinder Singh Program Manager, Confidential

To get the projects done on time and without getting any hassle!!

This was one of the reason with my prev companies, the woman once promoted gets attention of higher management where more and more ppl gets engaged in her rather than the actual work they are supposed to do..!!

We can't say women are ineffective, they are more effective but only with certain kind of jobs! Men understands easily which kind of women is ambitious and which is only beauty without brains! If few recognizes both in a woman - she definately gets a promotion..

Now-a-days, the competency level is much higher.. Women on the other hand gains higher priority becoz of the X- factor.. But again.. if they are easily selected for job, they will get hard on promotions!

Secret: In most cases, women who lost interest in their bosses, tends to get no/little promotion!

I feel..

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Bossess, many a times think that female employees are not competent enough.Many projects need long hours to be sent in the office and greater committments which a male can better serve.On the other hand,people try to get personal with female employees.

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I support this idea!

Add your argument:

Dont Agree

idea posted by Nitin Anand SAP Consultant, J P Morgan

I read all the comments and found them baseless because there is no way a women employee is less valuable for an organization than a male employee and also except for constraints of traveling or working late, i think there is no such work which a women employee cannot do.  On the other hand, i would like to believe that they do it in a better way and consider them more responsible in many ways compared to men.

I am not trying to be a feminist here but really did not like to read comments about women especially "sleeping with boss", gaining ground because of X-factor etc...  This somehow showed that today also we have not learnt to respect women and still consider the male race to be more dominant...

Lastly I would like to disagree strongly that being a woman would cause any hindrance for a female employee to get promoted.

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I support Nitin Anand.... I was working with one of  Leading MNC in Bangalore and Head for the supporting functions was a lady in her 50's... When I saw her in the induction i thought what this old lady gonna do with the business... however I had to change my mind after listening to her for 15 mins. So there are efficient folks in both gender, we dont have to discriminate based on gender. It all about how you brought up.... especially the social network and freedom you enjoy.

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by Vinay Udekar, Advisory Systems Analyst, IBM  | 01 19 2010 08:09:37 +0000

If you have capability, whether male or female, you definitely end up with the right job, right role and you can stand up for promotion. Geographically (depending on country) there is a big difference in the way women are looked onto how they grow up the ladder. Most of the ideas given in different posts therefore apply. But I wouldn't agree that in 21st century, women are considered anything less than a equally competent man. And off course that does not mean you have to pass a 50% reservation bill for promotion.

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Further to support Nitin and Makarand I would like to add that these days working late is no more a constraint. Thanks to the technology and flexibility in offices that it is possible to connect from home at any given time :)

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Most women don't ask for a raise

idea posted by Darshana Sawant HR Manager, Leading IT services company

I feel women don't get promoted more often because they don't ask for promotion to their bosses. Most  of them said that they felt if they worked hard and showed they were valuable to the company, they would get promoted. They also said they feared they could be fired if they appeared too pushy. If the question arises why more men are generally given higher salaries, actually, it is mostly women's fault. They simply don't ask for raises or promotions as often as men do. An employee, no matter he is male or female, he/she has to not only earn that promotion but also make his/her bosses know they need to give it to him/her. Bosses tend to promote not just valuable people but people who push to move up the ladder. After all, good leaders know that they do best if they're flanked by good lieutenants. They want to give opportunities to people who want to grow with the organization and not flee to the competition.

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but somewhere i feel that all what u have mentioned is totally psychological and offcourse its acceptable.

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ur wrong .

all though i dont have experience of ur field. but i feel an employee is xpected to give performance and that performance should be measurale and visble.

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by Ajay__Ziz , , jammu university  | 12 24 2009 11:37:03 +0000

darshana you are probably right

Add your argument:

Glass Ceiling !

idea posted by Dr. Mäjed Chambah Executive, Business & Life Coach, Innertech™ Institut

Some categories of employees rarely reach the top of the social ladder based on gender (women), origins (ethnics, foreigners, religion), sexual orientation (homosexuals) etc. even-though that these employees are as skilled as the others. This is a well known phenomenon called the glass ceiling. This kind of attitude can lead to learned helplessness and burn out.

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by BABA SYED AYZAZ HUSSAIN, Technical manager KALEXCO  | 12 22 2009 12:59:10 +0000

I do support resmi on the fact of family responsibilities stuff.

But still if you see 20-25 yrs back very few women were in jobs; today atleast in major cities of india we can see husband and wife working together etc...

I mean to say the women workers had increased, but still not so much that they overrun in number compared to the veterans(MEN).

The day when women go more than the men in number, then most of the bosses will be women and we will be discussing why the women bosses dont promote MEN.

It is the trend.

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I consider the latter part of Mr.Atilla’s statement baseless. Many women are promoted purely on merits not because they have shared bed with their bosses! Ashamed to see such comments! It is wrong to establish an isolated instance as a conclusion.  Performance is everywhere the criteria for promotion. It is otherwise the Glass Ceiling phenomenon.  A performing lady may find a back seat in the process of evaluation by the Boss, only if she is unable to match herself with a male in areas that only the latter could perform, like extensive travelling outside the State / Country, Handling Emergencies etc. Work/life balance challenges can impact women's advancement and, if not dealt with, may contribute to the glass-ceiling phenomenon. Women are typically the primary family caregivers for children and/or the elderly. Assumptions are often made regarding women's availability to do a job without interference from family responsibilities. Further, some organizations may not offer work/life programs that support outside commitments, particularly for senior-level positions. Therefore, many women are at a disadvantage to take steps that would increase the likelihood of advancing up the corporate ladder. An organization that is effective in succession planning giving due recognition to performing employees never let them down. She will be fit into an ideal position where she can excel. In almost all functional areas, women have proved to be successful. The Company should otherwise not have employed a lady at all!

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Depends

idea posted by Amit N Bhagwat Recruitment Manager

Hi Darshana,

Point 1:

We all of us have ego problem, so sense of insecurity, inside as in this case if boss is a guy & if the boss feels if he promotes  lady she might surpass him & his performance might get overlooked & hence maybe male bosses do not promote lady colleagues.


Point 2:

Male boss might be having grudge against female colleagues because that guy must have been dominated by female boss at some point of his career which you never know.


There could be n number of views for this I am sure it is difficult to come on conclusion why does this happens. If we are talking pretty general maybe we might have some good logical reasons. It is quite possible female bosses also might be doing the same thing the only thing is the percentage of this is pretty so less so yes female bosses are good to work with in that case ofcourse I never had female boss so I don't know but Darshana you yourself are a head of a team if I am not wrong how do you handle this? Are you cool promoting a male colleague if you feel he deserves it?

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I am completly agree with Amit.It's our mindset due to which we can't see women on the top or get promoted.Whenever such casas occur,our ego comes first and we take the decision against of them.But time has come to realize the fact that women are doing even better than us.They are better than us in each aspect so at least give them some chances to grow and show the world their capabilities.

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The Indian families  choose to remain selective when it comes to keeping a family tradition.One area where we in spite of all talk of women's lib,is that our families still maintain that a woman 's ultimate goal should be to become a good homemaker,hence her any move to enhance her career is subtly snubbed. Now for any organization what matters most is business growth and hence they more than often diplomatically promote a   male counterpart at the cost overlooking the superior  of performance of the female.In short the gender discrimination does exists in the corporate corridor in spite  of advocating a policy of equal opportunity,& no gender discriminations.A serious and meaningful change in our traditional outlook,can only  make norms of promotion  effectively transparent. Till then promotion to women will  remain exception not a rule.

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Womens are not handle some tasks at some situations.

idea posted by divakarbabu IT/Technical Content Developer, student solutions

Promotions will be not depending upon the men and women, mainly the  mentality of the superior and colleages.

one major  thing is that womens are not handle some tasks at some situations for that reason also

-------------------------Divakar.

 

 

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u know im from a family which is female dominating and m proud to accept and my mum has always proved herself  but if u say man dominate females i would say"update ur self" atleast from last 1 decade this women have proved themselves and its also because they have been supported.

secondly u should also remember that if u talk about corporates its not bout who is dominating whom its all bout performance and however, another reason of such things can be the responsibilities which a women performs both professionally and personally.

 

its not a question of comparing who is better?

because you cant compare  physique of both the genders.

but when it comes to intellect its all about who gives their best on the job ..

 

hope u got it

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by Manu Sharma, HR Recruiter, Vrinda Consultants  | 12 24 2009 16:05:36 +0000

I am not agree with you ,Sir.it  is because of such like you people whose mindset can never be changed.that's the reason...women have to surrender in front of  men- dominating society.In fact , there are some task which can not be performed by MAN.you must be heard about a saying...there is a lady after every successful MAN.in my opinion , WOMEN can do better or of course must do better than MAN.that's the reason...the employer don't want to provide  top most position to women.

 

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why bosses don't promote women employees?

idea posted by Ashwani Bhatnagar Manager - Sales Administration, United Ink and Varnish Co Pvt. Ltd.

Dear Darshana,

It is not 100% true that bosses don't promote women employee.  Today women have top positions in various functional areas across industries.  But  yes, women may not be preferred over a male employee because they may not be emotionally and mentally strong or stronger like their male counterparts.  At times they may not be hardcore and ruthless decision takers like men and may be required for a particular position.  It may not be possible for a female superior to command the respect from all her male subordinates and colleagues. Last but not the least men are also better in 'corporate politics' and can play the game as per the requirement of the boss.

ashwani bhatnagar

 

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I completely agree with Ashwini.

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It is all case by case

idea posted by Megumi Oyanagi Head/VP/-PR/Corp. Communication, Novartis

I am surprised to see this discussion has been extremely active, with variety of comments/ideas from many different view.

I remember this topic was the title of an article by Forbes.com (which I tweeted), but as a member states, it might not be 100% true that bosses do not promote women; in some cases, with Diversity initiatives going on in many global companies, they are proactive to find a female candidate to promote to say they have so many female managers.

Of course, in many other cases, until today, women have not been promoted with equal opportunites with men, and the reasons really would depend on the culture (of the country and the organization), work enviroment, the boss, the women themselves, etc.  And I strongly believe that you cannot generalize the reason.  It is case by case.

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by Arup Chakraborty, Managing Consultant  | 01 03 2010 16:41:31 +0000

Its true that the reasons really depends on the culture of the Country/Organization and too some extent the nature of the work. For example Indian job market was male dominated, but lot has changed in last decade and it has changed for good. There are lot of Organizations specially in IT/Banking sectors were special initiatives are taken to provide equal opportunities for Women employees.

Add your argument:

They promote but only oracled ones.

idea posted by Atilla Sahin Freelancer, Freelancer

I saw many women had got promoted.But many of them was oracled.They were supported by some lobbies.Or they were in sexual relation with bosses. And this is shame for managers and many companies.

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First of all I don't agree that female employees are not being promoted like male employees. Second, I agree with Sahin and Satwinder!!! Nothing more to elaborate!!!

Add your argument:

conflict of ideas,mentality,thoughts

idea posted by roumi chatterjee asst commercial executive, century plyboard india ltd

Though there could be many reason.I think this could be one of them.There is always a gap between thoughts,ideas,mentality of men and women.When somebody has boss power,then he/she wants everybody in the organisation to comply with his/her decision.But when subordinates disagrees to comply with their words,then conflict arises.One more point,always decision,opinion of women employees are not entertained.This makes women employees to be aggressive and compelled them not to comply with their boss.

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by Ranjeet Kumar, Policy & Strategy, ******  | 12 21 2009 13:39:32 +0000

In organizations,leadership qualities are often associated with masculine traits like rational logic,independence,toughness and aggressiveness etc. When  women are promoted for upper level/leadership ,they are held to  different standards than men, and external displays of toughness,logic ,aggressiveness and independence are perceived as incongruent with expectations of more feminine traits....

 

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Male bonding and ease of communication

idea posted by Reena Saxena Product Head - Large Business, Govt. Business & TASC

It is a fact that a woman has to put in double the efforts put in by a male colleague, to be accepted as good.


This is not a universal rule, but some male bosses are comfortable with guys who can share a drink, and bawdy jokes in the evening. Allocation of plum assignments, and other decisions are taken in these evening sessions, which may affect a female colleague adversely. They do not enjoy being polite and politically correct in the presence of a woman. In case a woman attempts to be a part of these evening sessions, and is comfortable with some colleagues, she is painted by other colleagues in a different light. It thus, becomes a Catch 22 situation.

Women who get over these hurdles eventually make it to the top.

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one's upbringing

idea posted by IMELDA OTAWA MBA/PGDM student, institute of business studies and research(IBSAR)

in my opinion i believe the kind of upbringing installed in a child determines the course of his life.

a male boss who was brought up in a male dominated environment, with the mentality of what roles befit a woman and which roles befit a man will definitely find it hard to promote a female worker while a male boss brought up in a more open environment will not find promoting a female worker a difficult task.

so to me thats the basis for a female worker getting a promotion or not

1
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jealosy

idea posted by Bhavana Menonq B.Com student, All Saints College

because they wudn like some1 who d working under them being smarter than them... as simple as that

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by Aneesh Koattayil, Accounts & Logistics, DJSONS  | 01 06 2010 14:40:54 +0000

Not at all, I think u r jealousy now... Let me tell u one thing, Every boss likes to have their work done perfect, fast and smooth. Cant comment it Jealousy.

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Culture Influence

idea posted by Pedro Gonzalez Lopez Advance Quality Engineer, Alps Electric

I think there is not a valid reason to justify why bosses don't promote women employee. All explanations can be summirized in the influence of ancient culture that consider women as inferior, and this influence is stronger in countries like China, India, Mexico with societies still based in old traditions.

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Due to Women.s dual responsibility.

idea posted by c.s.manjunthan BUSINESS DEVELOPMENT MANAGER., ENTREPRENEURSHIP

I basically hate to mention here that working women have to balance between home and office,but irrespective of what and how much broad minded men are,the responsibility at home will always be women's major share as compared to men,women will have to avail maternity leave,women will have to follow her husband in case of transfers,job changes,etc,.If an organisation deceides to promote a lady or a man every aspect in the interest of organisation is considered. There are very few women who have gone upto very senior posts, because these ladies have managed themselves. One more point I would like to mention here men cannot manage home like women,hence men opt for managing office like wise women opt for home.Finally majority of women don't persue job as career till the end of their service.  

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Say Ego or the mental block.

idea posted by Manish N Chugh Officer Trainee, Stock Holding Corporation of India ltd.,

I feel the women employees are equally responsible for the organization's growth and success as to men. They are equally capable as the men however, i feel its the ego or the mental block most of the higher authorities have for men. They feel men are more superior then the women but i feel the women are much more capable and versatile when it comes to professional career. ..... Thank you, Manish N.

Cheers!! 

0
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Inconsistency in committment

idea posted by Girish Shivakumaran Nair supervisory, Indian Air Force

To be very frank, women have problem in providing serious consistency to long term committment, moreover, this process is evolutionary. It may be a while before things would brighten up in her favour, till then its Regrets - Regrets only.

0
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Stereotypes

idea posted by domenico fama HR Business Parner, international Bank
Cultural stereotypes sapping objective evaluation of women-employees. Also if excellent at work, there is always some "yes but..." against: based on cultural views
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Nikhil Senior Manager Insurance

idea posted by Nikhil Senior Manager, Insurance
It may sound gender biased but the fact is women tend to be comfortable with jobs which have more security and stability I have worked in organsiaton where my reporting authorty was a lady and she would openly be favouring only lady employees every time but still when the appraisals were done or projects reporst were discussed we 2 men were on top and eventually got promoted and yes post a good hike we moved out to better jobs those ladies are still there 5 of them 3 married and left the town and 2 are still at same post We had to fight a baised attitude to prove our metal and we did it It is not women are not favoured for promotion actually it is women who do not favor men for a promotion. I am again not based to women because my wife works in Bank at middle level ( she is a post gard herself) and I keep assisting her whatever way I can so that she rises in her carrer
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Depends

idea posted by RAKESH PARMAR Accounts Executive/Accountant, Government Of Gujarat

Boss might be having grudge against female colleagues because that guy must have been dominated by female boss at some point of his career which you never know.


There could be n number of views for this I am sure it is difficult to come on conclusion why does this happens. If we are talking pretty general maybe we might have some good logical reasons. It is quite possible female bosses also might be doing the same thing the only thing is the percentage of this is pretty so less so yes female bosses are good to work with in that case ofcourse I never had female boss so I don't know but Darshana you yourself are a head of a team if I am not wrong how do you handle this? Are you cool promoting a male colleague if you feel he deserves it?

0
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It Depends

idea posted by Aneesh Koattayil Accounts & Logistics, DJSONS

It Depends. According to our Indian culture Women have many restrictions on many things, from family, from society..To be frank our Cultural view had stubborn them a lot. To promote for a women employee one employer had to think of many things like, type of job, Hardness of job, etc etc. Women are much more committed to family than men does. For Jobs requiring physical and mental strength one will not promote or prefer a women. Am not blindly against this. There might be some who are able and eligible. They can and will surely be preferred. By considering the few we cant prefer every women for every jobs.

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This is not same with Banking Industry

idea posted by ankur dureja Corporate Investment Manager(General Insurance), Axis Bank Ltd

What I felt in my service experience, women employees are getting more promotions in Banking Industry as compared to men.

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